Is this an exploit or a strategy?

[OTAKUjbski]

This "exploit" has been present since the original version of Civ. Nothing new here to see. Move along.

Indeed it has, but what about those who picked up CivIV as their first Civilization game? or the ones who just never noticed this?

I wasn't so much trying to 'bring this to light' as much as I was just wondering what others felt about this tactic.

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It appears the general consensus is that this is an exploit balanced by its absurdity and limited usefulness.

 

[Ecofarm]

1) I don't know what verisimilitude means.

2) I vote exploit for 2 reasons
a. It does not happen in real life (soldiers loading from 1 ship to another in a large chain across the ocean!?)
b. The AI cannot do it

3) Good luck with it in MP

 

[occam]

if they were aware of it, I'm sure it would have been patched out of the game by now.

Let n be a percentile representing how sure you are that it would've been patched by now.

10n = how sure I am that the designers are currently aware of this
2n = how sure I am that the designers were aware of this when game shipped (heh, shipped, get it)... c'mon, you really don't think they tested for this old chestnut?

And yet no patch....

Let's all agree to a moratorium on intuiting what the designers think.

- O

 

[occam]

It has to be an exploit, because it's a use of game mechanics that destroys the verisimilitude of the simulation--and that's the definition of an exploit.

Let x = the chance that this definition of exploit is a good definition.
x = 2x

I wish I had a nickel for every definition of "exploit" I get to critique.

- O

 

[cabert]

this certainly is an exploit, but as others have said, it's a relatively small one.
I use it once in a while when my supply chain is better than my reinforcement capacities (= more boats than troops to move), but often it's not so.
It's certainly better to stack units, so it's certainly better to stacke and fill your boats.
one more thing to the OP : it's not about unlimited movement for unlimited number of troops.
It's unlimited water movement for a limited (number of boats!) number of troops. You still can't unload the troops before the turn ends = your troops still have no military impact in this turn.

 

[Bagpuss]

I don't understand how the number of troops is limited. The number of boats gives you a limit on distance though.

 

[cabert]

I don't understand how the number of troops is limited. The number of boats gives you a limit on distance though.

on a given turn, you can move N x C troops only.
N is the number of boats in the origin city.
C is the capacity of these boats.

You fill the boats, you move them to the next set of boats, unload...
then your boats don't have any movement points left = no more troops can be moved.
Next turn, you can move back all the boat sets, but you move no troops (except unloading the initial bunch).
This is not unlimited IMHO.

Of course, given an unlimited number of boats, you could move unlimited number of troops, but without world builder you always have a limited number of boats.

 

[bardolph]

1) I don't know what verisimilitude means.

Verisimilitude = "believability"

This is definitely an exploit, though not a big one.

The best use for this IMO is for transoceanic Missionary spam, since the extremely short travel times will help you overcome your # of units cap.

 

[Florian]

Occam,

There are other related kinds of exploits too, of course. Exploiting bugs (not just game mechanics) counts too, and game balance should be protected (not just verisimilitude). But this isn't a bug, nor is game balance imperiled.

 

[anima36]

atm im playing an earth 18 civs as france, when i wanted to take america i used 10 full galleons but once my troops were landed it took just 12 turns to land another 30 troops, although i only landed another 12 because i didn't need many more after this point i would much rather use them for coastal assaults than making this chain as your units move so slow through enemy territory and by dropping troops behind the front line you can wreak havoc.

 

[occam]

Florian,

Thank you for your reply!

I still would argue that attempting to regulate game mechanics that reduce verisimilitude would produce FAR too many false positives for exploits. There must always be a further harm.

Here are a few false positives:
-- Upgrading spearmen to infantry
-- Enemy horse archers dancing by my legions of calvary to pillage
-- Expansion of cultural boundaries physically moving units on the map

(All cases where the mechanic just doesn't feel "real" to me... if these don't tickle you, let me know - I've got a million others.)

There are tons of compromises between reality and Civ. You only have a few GB of RAM, it is trivially true that you can't model everything. Verisimilitude is never the test for exploits. (It may, however, be a test for a good game.)

Cheers!
- O

 

[Florian]

Occam,

I'm not talking about places where the simulation itself purposefully opts for playability over verisimilitude. All simulations do that, by necessity. I'm talking about places where the mechanics can be abused so as to reduce verisimilitude beyond the level stipulated by the rules of the game.

 

[Syndrome Zed]

I'd say it's one of the less useful exploits - although if you're only crossing a strait that's 6 or 7 tiles wide it might have some value despite all the hammers/population you use to buy the trannies (depending on how you pay for them).

In other words, very situational, and an infrequent situation at that.

 

[axident]

Its not as helpful as it looks - you wouldn't start an invasion this way - by drip feeding units across. You would use every available transport and stuff it with troops. Your second wave of reinforcements won't be sent this way either - they will probably be sent on transports that were constructed just after the invasion fleet was sent and dispatched as soon as they can - long before you could establish the chain.

Later on it could help accelerate a third and subsequent wave, but by then you probably have a secure foothold and will want to use your transports for rapid assault up the coast rather than leave them in a long hard to defend chain.

In general the success of an intercontinental invasion for me isn't in how fast I can get reinforcements there - its whether I can arrive in sufficient force to establish a strong beachhead and pursue further cities. This strategy doesn't help me there and it carries a risk in making my transports hard to defend.

So I agree - its probably an exploit but I am not sure it helps you much.

Stalker are you my long-lost brother or something? I find myself agreeing with you on pretty much everything you write. Note that these "exploits" that you posted about were available in Civ2, and I don't recall people calling them as such (hammer overflow is like caravan stockpiling for wonders; chain-shipping worked the same way) .