Is Trump's golf-swing hitting Hillary GIF sexist?

(even if it was, you haven't demonstrated how that's sexist).

It's not inherently sexist or anything, it's just a view that reflects blindness to social structures, one of which is sexism.

If you consider "people sometimes lie" to be a harmful narrative then I think you're just denying reality anyway, and that's not helpful to anyone.

I don't agree that "people sometimes lie" is an accurate summary of what you've said re: Stoynoff and her account in this thread.
 
It's not inherently sexist or anything, it's just a view that reflects blindness to social structures, one of which is sexism

But it really isn't. It's just a recognition that humans lie and that therefore it's unwise to take a single person's testimony as unquestionably true. No more, no less. The fact that the person giving the testimony is female doesn't suddenly make it sexist.

I don't agree that "people sometimes lie" is an accurate summary of what you've said re: Stoynoff and her account in this thread.

I'm well aware that you're incorrectly summarising what I've said. I think it happens a lot.
 
We're both well aware that what you've said goes well beyond "people sometimes lie."

Oh okay, now you're doing that thing where you claim to know what I "really" think again. That never gets old.

But again, being charitable - yes the full details of what I said go beyond that. That's why that's a summary. That's what summaries are. All the other stuff I said boils down to this one key thing.
 
Yes. I gave some examples as to why she could be lying, which I only did because it was apparently inconceivable to some that this was even a possibility. I did this in order to justify the position of not immediately believing an unverified claim.

In summary - "people sometimes lie". Obviously a summary isn't going to include all the words I've said during a 2 page cross examination.

I'd still love you to explain how any of that is sexist though.
 
Yes. I gave some examples as to why she could be lying, which I only did because it was apparently inconceivable to some that this was even a possibility. I did this in order to justify the position of not immediately believing an unverified claim.

But that's not "reasoning." The problem is, you aren't actually analyzing the situation at all, and this extended exchange makes it quite clear that you never did. You just tossed out some reasons why she might be lying, and then tried to make the silly argument that she's not believable unless she proves beyond a reasonable doubt that it actually happened.

You can't just toss out a reason like, "she may have done it for financial gain," but then not provide any instances where she used it for financial gain. If you're going to claim this as a motivation for her to be lying, then at this point she probably would have used it for financial gain, right? So, tell use where she did that. Because otherwise, that is just a claim you made without any factual basis whatsoever. It's not a valid reason she might be lying at all unless she acted on it.

You also seem to have failed to account for the fact that there is contemporaneous evidence from witnesses that she told them it happened. So it's not just her lie for financial gain, but then everyone else would also have to stand to gain financially, or have some other motivation for lying. That seems a rather untenable conclusion, honestly. The target of the accusation is well-known to be litigious and has sued for slander and libel in the past. It's not like there are no potential consequences here if they all just made it up, but you never seem to have accounted for this in your "reasoning."
 
Warned for spam and trolling.
But that's not "reasoning." The problem is, you aren't actually analyzing the situation at all, and this extended exchange makes it quite clear that you never did. You just tossed out some reasons why she might be lying, and then tried to make the silly argument that she's not believable unless she proves beyond a reasonable doubt that it actually happened.

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/edit: Additional, important information below the spoiler, but it's long so be warned.
Spoiler :
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But that's not "reasoning." The problem is, you aren't actually analyzing the situation at all, and this extended exchange makes it quite clear that you never did. You just tossed out some reasons why she might be lying, and then tried to make the silly argument that she's not believable unless she proves beyond a reasonable doubt that it actually happened.

Right, I don't know why I'm bothering, you're already being insulting again, but I'll give it a go.

Yes of course it is "reasoning". Knowing that people can and do lie about things is the entire "reason" behind requiring proof, or strong evidence, before believing things. Knowing that people can do this makes it entirely reasonable to want to have this evidence. This is "reasoning". I don't see how you can describe it as anything else. If we somehow knew that people never, or at least extremely rarely, ever lied about things then at that point you could say it's becoming unreasonable to have any doubts about anyone's testimony. It would also make the court process a lot simpler wouldn't it. But that's not reality. Given the reality we live it, and the reality of human behaviour, it's reasonable to not take claims at face value if there could be large negative consequences for getting it wrong. This isn't a "silly argument" at all. If you really think it is then you should be putting all this effort into trying to reform the entire legal systems of most western countries, since you can only see them as absolute travesties if your views are consistent, rather than trying to convince a single person on the internet.

"Believable" and "true" aren't synonyms. Saying that we shouldn't automatically assume something is true is not that same as saying it is not believable. Please stop twisting what I've said.
 
Who said anything about taking the claims at face value? This is where your reasoning fail is - the only thing you're seemingly considering is "a woman told a story." Since people sometimes lie, then perhaps she is lying. You don't take into account any of this other evidence - namely, that other people are corroborating that she told them about the incident contemporaneously. That we also have the accused on tape saying that he engages in the same behavior. Rather, you insist on concocting a motivation for lying - without any evidence, mind you - and thereby using that to say we shouldn't believe her story.

As has also been pointed out to you many times - the "reasonable doubt" standard exists in one arena, and for one specific purpose. Civil courts, which deal with these types of cases all the time, are perfectly comfortable using a preponderance standard to establish facts and, ultimately, civil liability for one's actions. Liability which often does, in fact, impose large negative consequences on the people or entities found liable. So actually, I don't need to reform the legal system at all - they've gotten it right all along, and realize the absurdity of the burden of proof you're trying to impose.
 
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