Island Strategy

CivLuvah

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What's your (recommended) strategy for being on islands, especially with regards to production and food?

In my current game as Greece I'm having trouble producing food and increasing production as my cities are on small islands. I don't have room for farms and even though my capital has an industrial zone it's not enough to decrease the number of turns it takes to build units or buildings. This is in the late game, but early in the game I was already having trouble producing and feeding. The map is fractal.
 
Good question. Since the islands limit your ICSing, I guess what you can do is try and beeline Shipbuilding and then get more room that way.
 
In my current game as Greece I'm having trouble producing food and increasing production as my cities are on small islands.
By "small islands", do you mean islands where you can only plant one city? If so, my "strategy" would be to start another game. The way Civ6 works with districts and adjacency means tiny island cities are not valid as your core/starting empire. You might expand to those later but starting there seems impossible (unless you play on low difficulty and don't mind a very slow game).
A single industrial zone without adjacency is not that great either. They really shine when you can overlap multiple factories.

I think science will be very hard on small islands map for those reasons. Maybe you could try tourism (culture) as you don't need that much production (2 key wonders : Christo Redentor and Eifel Tower) and with islands you could have many suitable locations for Seaside Resorts. Religion could be possible if you have a lot a faith as you barely need anything but faith for religious victory. If none of those seem possible, try to abuse the inability of AIs to fight at sea for a domination victory. I think gold will be ultra important to purchase what you can't build in a reasonable amount of time, so try to have as many as you can.
 
Harbors and Commercial districts for tons of trade routes.
 
... hoping there are not too many barbarian caravels roaming the seas
But, yeah, probably this and using foreign trade routes for max gold cause you won't get enough from internal now that the double districts bug has been fixed.
 
By "small islands", do you mean islands where you can only plant one city?

Not really. My capital is in an island where there's enough space for 5 to 6 cities and a sizable amount of districts.

But the reason for this thread is how to have an island strategy in general, not just for my circumstances but for anyone who has their cities on any sized island, since land space is very valuable in the game now.
 
With Frigates just a short beeline away (I believe it's 7 techs if you go there directly:crazyeye:) you can just expand through conquest and then crank up your production with traderoutes by building Harbors and Commerce hubs in all those cities (this will also have you swimming in gold due to the harbor giving extra adjacency to all the commerce hubs).

Have succesfully done Frigate rushes on Deity, AI really neglects building ships.
 
Not really. My capital is in an island where there's enough space for 5 to 6 cities and a sizable amount of districts.
If the island is more like a small continent, i think you can play much like you would play a continent map with a few changes.
  • An early scout isn't as useful because your goody huts are really "yours" unless you really don't explore with your warrior. OTOH an early slinger is very important cause AI won't help you destroy barbarian camps and you are probably their only target. Kill that scout ASAP or fortify on a hill-forest and destroy the warriors that spawn for culture if you are Gorgo :lol:
  • You will miss some early Eurekas (writing) and Insipration (Foreign Trade and Political Philosophy) so you might need a bit more culture to get to governments fast. An early monument can be more useful than usual.
  • AIs won't take your land so expanding fast isn't as essential. An early rush to expand with conquest isn't possible either so you really need to get some good cities yourself.
  • If you can't get many cities fast, you need a campus or two to avoid falling behind too much on science.
Other than that, i think it would play mostly as a normal game. Maybe you could post a screenshot/save of your game so we can have a look.
If you can't because the game is 6otM02, then you can definitely build a small but nice empire on your island (more than 5-6 cities are possible)
...crank up your production with traderoutes...
Have succesfully done Frigate rushes on Deity, AI really neglects building ships.
Post-patch notes : trade routes aren't as strong as they used to be since they fixed the double-district bug (district with unique versions were giving their yield twice so harbor+IZ were +4 prod, now only +2). Also i think AI now builds more ships and goes for better ships faster on a water heavy maps so the Frigate rush has to be a real rush.
 
... hoping there are not too many barbarian caravels roaming the seas
But, yeah, probably this and using foreign trade routes for max gold cause you won't get enough from internal now that the double districts bug has been fixed.

Sorry for going off-track here, but I wanted to know what was this Double Districts bug that got fixed now.
 
Sorry for going off-track here, but I wanted to know what was this Double Districts bug that got fixed now.
(district with unique versions were giving their yield twice so harbor+IZ were +4 prod, now only +2)
In more detail, before the patch a bug caused every district that also had a unique version to give twice it's Internal Trade yield (and maybe external also, not sure). So an Industrial Zone was supposed to give +1 to internal trade routes sent to the city housing it, but because IZ has a unique version (German Hansa), it gave 2+ instead.
That bug was the reason why some people could get up to +8 production from internal trade routes late game, and quickly get +5 production (City center + IZ + Harbor).
Now those districts are counted only once (so the same City Center + IZ + Harbor gives you +3 production). It's still useful but no longer as strong as it used to be (you could easily get 5food/5prod from trade routes in the early-mid game pre-patch)
 
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Here's my saved game. This is in late game, mind you.
OK. I had a look at your game. Those islands are smaller than the "small continent" from 6otM02 but better than some tiny islands i've seen sometimes with Island Plates script. You don't have multiple mountains for good adjacency on Campus Holy Sites which hurt you of course. You are suffering from lack of production, that's for sure but probably more than this seeing you are not very advanced in either Science nor culture (as Greece, by t380 you should have cycled Social Media and/or Globalization several times if you had not won already). I guess you are heading towards Culture seeing you are researching Radio which is a good idea as you don't need that many production for this victory, but you are late on Great Works.
I think your issues are more with general optimization than this particular map. A few things i noticed
  • You have only 3 cities on your starting island. You should really have 4-5 closer together. With an elongated island it's hard to get good overlap from Factories/Power Plants. With cities so far away from one another, it's almost impossible. Factories and Power Plants cost a lot of production and are hardly worth the investment if they can't benefit several cities.
  • Your improvements are badly placed. You have farms on hills, no farm triangles, few mines near your industrial zones.
  • You spent a lot of time in what i consider the worst government : Monarchy. For peaceful games, I prefer Classical Republic→Merchant Republic→Democracy/Communism (depends on VC). For more war it would be Oligarchy→Merchant Republic→Totalitarianism or Oligarchy→Theology (if i have a lot of faith)→Totalitarianism.
  • Your choice of Civic cards is also questionable. Raj is hardly worth it with only 3 CS suzerain. I would rather get the gold/envoy card because you are really low on gold. Triangular Trade is also a good way to improve your GpT. No need to keep Diplomatic League slotted for a long time. Try to accumulate some envoys, then switch to it for a few turns when you send them to new CS, then remove it. Finally, i never found Military Research to be very useful apart from maybe a very war heavy game where you build a lot of encampment. I usually use only 1-2 military cards and those are often the -1 (then -2) gold upkeep and the +1 mobility in own land (because it helps your workers/apostles/archeologists). I sometimes slot a + production card for some turns to get units produced faster when i'm a t war.
  • Speaking of CS, i think you really over-played some CS. No need to get 11 envoys when the closest rival has 4. The maximum bonus is at 6 so above 6 you send just enough to stay Suzerain. You should have envoys in many more CS.
  • You hardly have any Commercial Hub. I know your space is limited and you probably preferred Harbor to get trade routes but a couple of those wouldn't hurt. You have only 6 trade routes, it's not enough at that point of the game. If you go for Culture you want at least one for every civ and there are a lot of those (what size is that map BTW?)
  • Your religion. Maybe you didn't have a choice but Religious Community can be a trap. +2 housing is nice, but it forces you to build holy sites everywhere and that's usually not what you want. I prefer beliefs that help you even with no holy site like Zen meditation or Jesuit Education
  • You totally filled the early eras techs and civics. You don't need to. Beeline what you need for your victory or some globally useful techs/civics but don't try to completely research an era before going to the next one.
If you want to go for Culture from there. AIs are nowhere so you can still win this one.
  • Get more trade routes to get the +25% with more civilizations.
  • Kill a few units from Peter and try to get a good peace deal (war doesn't help your culture game)
  • Try to get 1 way Open Borders. Do it when you sell excess luxuries.
  • Build more acropolises, build or buy archeological museums and get those archeologists out. There are so many ruins.
  • Try to get the +% tourism cards at cultural heritage, space race and social media.
  • Research Computer after Radio
  • Get some Seaside Resorts
You tourism will grow much bigger. it's unlikely you can get the wonders with your low production, but maybe as it's Prince.
 
as Greece, by t380 you should have cycled Social Media and/or Globalization several times if you had not won already
Am I supposed to? My play style is to enter into eras around the estimated year that they start IRL. It gives me a sense of scale and immersion in my games. If I am way behind research it feels rushed. If I'm lagging behind it's a problem for me.

you are late on Great Works.
I have several artistic GP lying around in my game, waiting to fill Great Work slots. They just need buildings to have slots.

You have only 3 cities on your starting island. You should really have 4-5 closer together. With an elongated island it's hard to get good overlap from Factories/Power Plants.
I should have thought of that when I settled my first cities early game. Correct me if I'm wrong, but overlapping bonus happens when two cities share the district's yields + bonus yield for both cities because of the overlapping?

You spent a lot of time in what i consider the worst government : Monarchy
I did realize that while I was playing mid-game. :/

what size is that map BTW?
It's huge. I always play huge maps for immersion purposes, but I know there can be problems with just playing huge always

I appreciate the feedback, tips and comments BTW. I have a confession to make though (I'm planning to post a full thread on this in the near future, but I think it's relevant to talk about this for this thread)

Spoiler :
I've been playing Civ games since 2007/8, but this is the first time I'm playing on Prince. I've never pushed myself to play higher difficulties. I feel embarrassed for (1) typing this in a forum meant for Civfanatics and (2) the fact that I've been playing the series for 8 or so years. :blush:
 
Am I supposed to? My play style is to enter into eras around the estimated year that they start IRL. It gives me a sense of scale and immersion in my games. If I am way behind research it feels rushed. If I'm lagging behind it's a problem for me.
No of course, you are supposed to play in a way you enjoy. However i always thought Civ did a poor job of respecting the time scale (and Civ6 is probably the worst so far) so if you purposefully slow you down to respect historical timing, you are handicapping yourself. Again, nothing wrong with this, but keep it in mind, if you ever play on higher difficulties you'll have troubles when the AI hits Industrial 100 AC and you are still in Classical. I actually never look at the date myself and simply consider game turns. I think it's perfectly possible to win by Culture with Greece between T250 and T300 even for someone who's not too good at fast finish like myself.
I have several artistic GP lying around in my game, waiting to fill Great Work slots. They just need buildings to have slots.
OK, didn't really look closely for this. It's normal you get Musicians before you have slots if you don't get one of the early wonders with music slots. For Writers, it will be better when you play a post-patch game as Amphitheaters now have 2 slots. I don't like having too many Art Museums, 1-2 when playing culture and then Archeological. I find them easier to fill and theme. Theming is important as it doubles your culture and tourism output and art is pain to theme especially with the way trade works.
I should have thought of that when I settled my first cities early game. Correct me if I'm wrong, but overlapping bonus happens when two cities share the district's yields + bonus yield for both cities because of the overlapping?
Yes. Both Factories and Power Plants affect cities in a 6 tiles radius. On most maps, a well placed Industrial Zone can easily cover 4 cities. you can get more with perfect placement (not always possible due to map). On your map i would say you could probably get 3 cities covered by well placed IZ. Factory + Power Plant gives you +7 production, so if you cover 4 cities you actually get +28 production, making the time invested in building them pay off much faster.
And as you said, overlap is when a single city benefits from several IZ. You can get some really nice boosts if a city gets the benefit from 4-5 IZ.
Zoos and Stadiums from the Entertainment District also have an area of effect.
I did realize that while I was playing mid-game. :/
Some very wise men said "learning is making mistakes". That government might have it's uses in a few situations, but i still have to find those.
I have a confession to make though (I'm planning to post a full thread on this in the near future, but I think it's relevant to talk about this for this thread)
No need to be embarrassed. The point of playing a video game is to have fun and not everyone find it fun to fight against an AI that start with 3 cities and reaches Industrial in the late BC :hammer2:
Some tips are of course more relevant to the higher difficulties that most people in the strategy sub-forum play on.

Do you know how adjacency bonuses work for farms and districts? It would be a good start to improve your games as you can really get more food and production just by placing your stuff in the correct position.
 
Do you know how adjacency bonuses work for farms and districts? It would be a good start to improve your games as you can really get more food and production just by placing your stuff in the correct position.

I might need to "study" on districts and improvements and their yields haha. The game really makes you think, and it's one of the reasons I'm loving it. :)

Do you make diagrams to plan strategy?
 
Do you make diagrams to plan strategy?
No, but some better players do.
What i do i look at the map and if i notice a good spot for an Inustrial Zone i mark it with a map pin (i use the hexagonal icon for districts) and try to count 6 tiles in every direction to look for city spots. Otherwise i try to settle next to rivers but when i build my districts i try to get some overlaps for IZ, even if it means sacrificing a point or 2 of adjacency.

Speaking of those, a few of the important ones
  • Farms gain +1 food per 2 adjacent farms at Feudalism. This is why the farm triangle is good. Each farm will give you +1 food in this configuration
  • Mines and Quarries give +1 production to IZ. Early one (before factories) this can be significant if you have 3-4 mines (gives you the equivalent of a free mine)
  • Commercial Hub gains +2 gold from rivers
  • Most districts gain 1/2 yield from other districts so a triangle of district is +1 to each of their yields
  • Of course, if you go for religion Holy Site gains +1 from mountains and +1/2 from forests. They can also get more from Pantheon.
  • Harbor gets +1gold from every sea resource and has a building that adds production equal to the adjacency
 
My small island strat is go wide and fast. Small islands means you do not have to worry about attack for a while so get those settlers out there ensuring you get eureka's where you can. Now how you place those settlers is dependent on what victory you go for but you have more choice of amenity in small island maps. more seasides, more choice on defensible positions. A must is naval power, get the harbors going ASAP and some ships out there and gone great admirals growing. +1 movement speed really helps and those admirals have some nice ship abilities.

Many smaller cities will give just as much pop which is the main science.
Quad ships that shoot should be the mainstay of a fleet (quad - frigate - battleship) with galley, ironclad-destroyer still being important for scout & anti sub duties.

England's royal dock is just awesome in this situation and combined with sea dogs makes them very strong for this option.
Brazils GPP bonus makes their fleet mean fast and limits others from getting any admirals.

Greece?... well the extra card comes in handy, always so should not be discounted.

For me continents seem to be based on production and islands on fleets. If you can rule the sea and do not get tired of sending ships around constantly then they cannot trade, cannot attack and if I want to take them out sea shooting is basic but an easy win. I can pillage very easy and get out, destroy their docks... tbh I normally play continents because island is fun but easy.
 
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