Italy should be in!

[Riker]

I agree with the LastOne36 again, something's wrong...
I see no reason for not accepting Italy as a civ, but since they had to choose between a great number of them, we have to agree with Firaxis. Maybe was better than HRE, maybe not. But they can't add 666 civs, so I'll play the game hoping for the future. As will do the Poles (north and south) and the Austrians and everyone else left behind.

 

[TheLastOne36]

As will do the Poles (north and south)

good one. finally a good joke about poland that isn't offensive.

 

[Jaywolf]

Italy is a much better choice than the HRE; first of all, it is a "real" civilization, not a squabble of arguing little states

Well, actually, if you consider the Middle Ages and Renaissance Italy's, as opposed to Rome's, Golden Age, they were a "squabble of arguing statelets", as well as being quite powerful in Ruropean affairs

 

[Pangur Bán]

Italy is a much better choice than the HRE; first of all, it is a "real" civilization, not a squabble of arguing little states;UOTE]

Not sure Ottonian Germany can be described like this. The trouble with the HRE is that most people only know it from it's bad days, when it was indeed like that; but between its creation in the 10th century and the late 13th century it was the powerhouse of Western Christendom.

 

[Spearthrower]

I love how people try to use some governing logic to understand the inner workings of civ choice.

Face it, you don't know why civs are chosen and why they aren't. We can make reasonable approximate guesses due to general coverage of a given area and general level of impact on world history.... but all this comparisons between real world cultures is totally ridiculous.

Anyway, the op is wrong.... the HRE isn't exactly where modern Germany is, it did share a lot of the same location, but missed an awful lot and had a little more in the west and south. Not the same as Italy/Rome, so a bad analogy.

 

[Bongo-Bongo]

Personally, whilst I think Italy would make a pretty decent civ, as we already have an overflowing selection of European civs, I have to say that I don't think they should be included. IMHO, all of the currently selected European civs have the edge over Italy, and we really don't need any more from this area.

 

[Mirc]

Corsica has its own language, which is supposedly the closest think to Latin still spoken as a first language.

Not true at all. First of all you're confusing Corsican with Sardinian and second it's very hard to say that it's the closest language to Latin existing today.

 

[Saim]

I do think a (preferably unified, but otherwise Venice) Italian civ, but I would also prefer a few civs before it. Second expansion to Civ 5 would be a good place for Italy.

 

[TheLastOne36]

Still i don't see why Bavaria or Austria isn't in when HRE is? If there going to give more representation to the Holy Roman Empire then Austria or Bavaria would've been better.

 

[ohcrapitsnico]

Still i don't see why Bavaria or Austria isn't in when HRE is? If there going to give more representation to the Holy Roman Empire then Austria or Bavaria would've been better.

QFT, personally I think it would have been more interesting to see austria or bavaria over the HRE.

 

[TheLastOne36]

Besides the Bavarians might be offended that there with the HRE and Germany? (Bavarians don't consider themselves german)

 

[ohcrapitsnico]

Besides the Bavarians might be offended that there with the HRE and Germany? (Bavarians don't consider themselves german)

and there are no HRE people today to even say whether they are german or whatever.

 

[TheLastOne36]

I am a Holy Roman Empirean! Bow before my Holyness or i shall make you part of my great Roman like Empire! No, not that Roman Empire!!

 

[cybrxkhan]

better Bavaria than the HRE, though i'd be quite surprsied... Austria is better than HRE, though i thihk there'd be better choices...

 

[dutchking]

Alright. I really don't think Italy will ever be a named civ (NAMED, as in not exactly called Italy) because it is already represented by Rome, Byzantine, and the HRE.

Spoiler :

Click for larger view.

They're never going to add it as it's own civ, it's like having "Ottomans" and Turkey.

 

[aronnax]

Alright. I really don't think Italy will ever be a named civ (NAMED, as in not exactly called Italy) because it is already represented by Rome, Byzantine, and the HRE.

Spoiler :

Click for larger view.

They're never going to add it as it's own civ, it's like having "Ottomans" and Turkey.

Italy would be a better choice if somebody sucessfully united Italy in the 1500 than in the 1800

 

[Sofista]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unification_of_Germany

18 January 1871, and yet no one could sanely deny the pre-existance of a German nation.

 

[aronnax]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unification_of_Germany

18 January 1871, and yet no one could sanely deny the pre-existance of a German nation.

Yeah but Germany started two world wars, was (in name) united as the Holy Roman Empire which was a german state from its creation to its death in the hands of napoleon.

Italy was never united in any way until 1861

 

[dh_epic]

"Germanic Civilization" has existed for millenia. So has Italian civilization. It goes all the way back to the Etruscans. But let's be honest: they're Romans. And their later accomplishments deserve to be recognized, rather than just their early ones.

The city states period gave us:
(1) the double entry book-keeping accounting method, which arguably led to (2) the birth of capitalism, and (3) the birth of mercantilism.

The papal states were also their own city state, which gives us (4) Rome as a religious-political concept.

Plus we have (5) the birthplace of perspective, which influenced all European art for the next 6 centuries, which is the artistic paradigm that gave us such wonders as (6) the sistine chapel.

Then we have great scientists and thinkers such as (7) Fibonacci, a North African who brought Zero to mainland Italy, and (8) Leonardo DaVinci, who needs no introduction. Besides other famous artists like (9) Michaelangelo, there was also the work of (10) Dante Algheri and the Divine Comedy, or (11) Petrarch, who is considered the father of the renaissance.

Because the renaissance was stimulated by the arrival of Greek knowledge stored by the Arabic Empires, this rediscovery of Greek knowledge stimluated the birth of (12) the Humanist movement. And this paradigm of thought, which was necessarily less centered on religion, influenced (13) Macchiaveli and his infamous treatise known as "The Prince", which was considered a response to (14) the Medici clan, the most powerful clan in Italy at the time and perhaps a reason the region was prosperous enough to create some of these ideas. This is probably a good source for their leader.

Don't forget (15) Saint Peter's Basillica or (16) the Venetian Arsenal. The first one is absolutely iconic for the Roman Catholic faith, while the second one represents the world's first factory -- centuries before the industrial revolution in Britain.

That's just some of the most FAMOUS stuff from the middle ages and renaissance. I could dig even further. I could even get into the industrial age.

Not saying Italy should be included, but certainly the Medicis or Mussolini would make a great additional leader.

 

[TheLastOne36]

^ i didn't bother reading it, but i know it has some good points. Why is HRE in and Italy not when we are trying to over-represent civs?