It's official: Mali is in as a civ. -snicker-

[Xen]

mod out the ottomen's? they were the biggest empire up til that time dwarfing the
eastern roman empire's size -indeed personal preferences and reality are two distinct beasts....

A)I'm replacing them with the Turks;a peoples whos over all importance and territoy dwafs the ottoman empire

B)the Ottoman empire was big poltical entity, but had relitivlly little cultureal impact aside from spreading islam into eastern europe; but considering most areas rejected it, that impact was limited; the Byzantines, by contrast, had a temendous impact on world affairs such as culture, politcis, and the geopolitcal situation from Sicilly to Jerusalem, and from Alexandria to the upoer shores of th eblack sea; the Ottomans were mainlly a regional player; a major regional player, but still just that, and outside of posing a threat for europe to unify agianst when attmepteing to invade asutria, and being yet another reason to circumanvigate the globe (both things already present with reasons for the europeans to do anyway) one is challenged to find hugelly lasting impacts for the Ottomans

 

[Kyriakos]

I have to apologise, because i actually confused rhialto with troytheface , i must be needing some sleep!

I wasnt being offensive against the arabs, you missunderstood me, i just claimed that they should be in in the form of a specific arabic civ, which would naturally replace the gneeric arab civ. You just missunderstood what my point was.

As for greeks, yes, i agree, and do not try to make me sound like a nationalist, for i am not making useless claims of descendance from people that lived 3000 years ago But Greece would at any rate be in, and dividing it in seperate civs would be useless since they will probably anyway appear in mods, something which isnt certain at all about the arabic civs (i am not sure if any civ3 mod has many different arabic civs).
But anyway, this is like beating a dead horse

 

[Hannabir]

What makes me really upset in this discussion is not denying Mali to be among the "18 most important Civs of all times". Maybe they are not.
But, they of course were for several magnitudes more important for the World history than Aztecs, Mayans, Incans, Sioux and Iroquois together...
As long as there is a single American Civ (except for the US!) in the game, it's ridiculous to deny Mali the significance.

Don't overreact ...
Mali is a fine choice, but the same holds for the Maya and the Iroquois.

The Iroqouis saved their regional currency market, after all, while Mali undermined theirs!

 

[rhialto]

...Perhaps the arabs could have been left out, they werent a real civ anyway...

I wasnt being offensive against the arabs, you missunderstood me, i just claimed that they should be in in the form of a specific arabic civ, which would naturally replace the gneeric arab civ...

I think I see where the confuision lies now. You are thinking in terms of "Arabs" as a generic civ. But there was also a specific civ in that region with the same name, which is the one I'm thinking of.