It's time to ditch Fascism

[Patine]

Fascism existed (and still exists in new forms) and you can't tell the story of the 20th century without fascism. The game is about history. Unless the game is going to end before the 20th century, fascism belongs in it.

It's not REALLY about history, really. Luca has that wrong, too.

 

[sTAPler27]

Fascism existed (and still exists in new forms) and you can't tell the story of the 20th century without fascism. The game is about history. Unless the game is going to end before the 20th century, fascism belongs in it.

I stand by that the games are historical but to me at least they've been historical in the sense that history is the study of the flow of time and cause and effect. If the game did want to focus on being true to history as in specifically the history of our world the map would always be shaped like ours, with the same civs on each continent, following the religions they did in real life and picking the governments they did in their times. But since the Civ world is on shuffle rarely does any of that happen in one game. In civ Fascism might not have ever been even viable conceptually so another ideology took its place.

 

[luca 83]

I stand by that the games are historical but to me at least they've been historical in the sense that history is the study of the flow of time and cause and effect. If the game did want to focus on being true to history as in specifically the history of our world the map would always be shaped like ours, with the same civs on each continent, following the religions they did in real life and picking the governments they did in their times. But since the Civ world is on shuffle rarely does any of that happen in one game. In civ Fascism might not have ever been even viable conceptually so another ideology took its place.

Yes a fascist government also creates fascist leaders Napoleon cannot have fascist characteristics nor similar powers nor societies and institutions similar to fascism, unity or character traits are not enough but institutions, laws, organizational principles.

 

[luca 83]

I stand by that the games are historical but to me at least they've been historical in the sense that history is the study of the flow of time and cause and effect. If the game did want to focus on being true to history as in specifically the history of our world the map would always be shaped like ours, with the same civs on each continent, following the religions they did in real life and picking the governments they did in their times. But since the Civ world is on shuffle rarely does any of that happen in one game. In civ Fascism might not have ever been even viable conceptually so another ideology took its place.

If you do not understand the phenomenon of the demilitarized veterans and the treaties considered unfair by the Italians and the capture of the city of Fiume in 1919, you do not fully understand fascism, nor the two-year period of 1918-1920 and the fear of communism and the inability of the liberal government to face it, as well as the crisis of 1929, Stalin's refusal to collaborate with the social democrats favored national socialism.

 

[luca 83]

My personal issue with how modern ideologies have been represented in the Civ series, can be summarized as:

1. Fascism making you do war good. The Axis lost WW2 precisely because they bought into their own hype too hard to actually get good at fighting (or more importantly, developing proper supply networks)
2. Not enough ideologies. I feel like these games could've done some proper good by portraying modern politics as significantly more pluralistic. It's not just a matter of "Left vs Right" or "Left vs Right vs Third Alternative"; we need proper representation of and distinction between: social democrats, anarchists, environmentalists, neoliberals (as a distinction from classical liberals), neo-monarchists, neo-mercantilists, pan-africanists (and other anti-colonial movements), feminists, religious fundamentalists, state atheists (as in, believing religion is the root of all evil and must educated out of existence), libertarian capitalists, national conservatives, neo-conservatives, etcetera
3. Ideology affecting what you can do as a nation. In real life, what ideology the ruling class adopts has way more effect on regular people's lives, than on what kind of methods the nation can employ to dominate other nations

For this reason we must insist on the mechanisms of government and the ideology that the leaders have

 

[Patine]

If you do not understand the phenomenon of the demilitarized veterans and the treaties considered unfair by the Italians and the capture of the city of Fiume in 1919, you do not fully understand fascism, nor the two-year period of 1918-1920 and the fear of communism and the inability of the liberal government to face it, as well as the crisis of 1929, Stalin's refusal to collaborate with the social democrats favored national socialism.

Again, this scripted history, which is NOT a Civ-series game.

 

[Patine]

For this reason we must insist on the mechanisms of government and the ideology that the leaders have

Whose, "we?"

 

[luca 83]

Politics is a constant in human civilization from the Sumerians to the Greeks but even more important in the twentieth century with more than 40 years of cold war and a very serious mistake. Do not delve into politics

 

[luca 83]

I stand by that the games are historical but to me at least they've been historical in the sense that history is the study of the flow of time and cause and effect. If the game did want to focus on being true to history as in specifically the history of our world the map would always be shaped like ours, with the same civs on each continent, following the religions they did in real life and picking the governments they did in their times. But since the Civ world is on shuffle rarely does any of that happen in one game. In civ Fascism might not have ever been even viable conceptually so another ideology took its place.

And connected to a potential communist revolution combined with the phenomenon of the veterans and anti-communism will unleash an anti-communist, nationalist and anti-democratic feeling, because in any case the birth of modern ideologies and the collapse of the systems of the times