Japanese plot to kidnap Roosevelt

[joycem10]

Im reading a history of WWII and one of the points the author examines in detail is the pre-war situation between Japan and the US.

During the period just prior to the Nomura/Kurusu mission in DC (specifically September '41) the Japanese had repeatedly attempted to induce Roosevelt to meet at a Pacific location to discuss the outstanding trade disputes and China.

The author referenced speculation that, given the nature of the Pearl Harbor attack, the Japanese intent may have been to kidnap Roosevelt for use as a bargaining chip against the US. Preparation for Pearl Harbor had been in the works since early 1941 and a peaceful solution was highly unlikely by the fall of '41.

It seems far-fetched today, almost like the plot from a crappy 80s thriller novel.

If such an attempt would have been made what response would have come from the American people. Would there have been the same outrage as that which came from the attack on Pearl? If Roosevelt had been taken, would the US have negotiated?

 

[1889]

I'm sure president Wallace would have declared war with the popular support of the American people.

What is the book BTW?

Also, does hostage tasking fit in with the Bushido Code?

 

[joycem10]

The book is "The War" by Louis L. Snyder. It was published back in the late sixties.

 

[ParkCungHee]

I would generally say that he's completely off the mark in this matter. Planning for war with America didn't begin until After this point, and besides which I don't think the Japanese would try kidnapping a head of state, being as the reprecussions it would have for their own.

 

[Traitorfish]

Also, does hostage tasking fit in with the Bushido Code?

Sure- Roosevelt wasn't a samurai- as the Japanese officer class considered themselves to be- so they would have had no obligations to treat him like one. That means that taking him hostage would be perfectly legitimate. Besides, even if he was a samurai, that would just mean that they would have to allow him to commit seppuku if he wished, it wouldn't actually prevent his capture.

 

[Yurope]

and besides which I don't think the Japanese would try kidnapping a head of state, being as the reprecussions it would have for their own.

And besides the Japanese would never surprise attack a US military base, because of the reprec...

wait. nevermind

 

[ParkCungHee]

And besides the Japanese would never surprise attack a US military base, because of the reprec...

wait. nevermind

Theres a difference. One is engaging in war, the other is commiting Regicide. The Japanese were generally selective of what international laws to observe, but being as the emperor was never threatened by war, and retaliation against him would be ensured by kidnapping Roosevelt.

Besides which, I think, if there was even the smallest backing for such a move, we'd have some record of it on the Japanese side, instead of assuming
Diplomatic conference = Kidnapping
There is just as much "evidence" as there was of Hitler wanting to kidnap King George.

 

[Traitorfish]

...the other is commiting Regicide.

No it's not. "Regicide" means "killing a king", not "kidnapping an elected head of state". Among other things, a kidnapping intends to capture the target for some later use- ransom, interrogation, etc, while an assassination had the intenention of eliminating the target.

 

[ParkCungHee]

There's still the point that there is absolutely no evidence of this supposed plot.

 

[The Yankee]

What were they really hoping to accomplish with such a plan? It's not as if we'd give up all that much (if anything) for the sake of having a president returned to us.

 

[ParkCungHee]

This is honestly the first time I've ever heard this inteperetation and unless someone comes up with some evidence on the Japanese side of things, I'm generally going to regard it as bunk, but this seems to only detract from the real sinister motive behind the Pacific Conference Japan was pushing for. Japan engaged in negotiations with Roosevelt about having some sort of conference to settle the problems of China and the embargo up until the attack on Pearl Harbor, as a way of maintaining the veneer of normal relations. In fact, Japanese behavior in the negotiations (backing away from specifics, avoiding setting a date, and generally being non-commital) seem to suggest the exact opposite: that Japan never seriously considered a conference with Roosevelt. Give the eagerness Roosevelt had for the idea, I can't imagine why this plot never happened, if it ever existed.

No it's not. "Regicide" means "killing a king", not "kidnapping an elected head of state". Among other things, a kidnapping intends to capture the target for some later use- ransom, interrogation, etc, while an assassination had the intenention of eliminating the target.

And Ransom tends to imply willingness to kill him should they not comply, I know "regicide" is not the correct term, but violating international law with regards to head of state is not something they would take lightly. Attacking Pearl Harbor meant that the Japanese Armed Forces were threatened, and later the Japanese People. Kidnapping and/or killing Roosevelt would have had serious consequences for the Emperor, and placing the Emperor in danger would be antithetical to the militarists aims.

 

[Leifmk]

I'm sure president Wallace would have declared war with the popular support of the American people.

Yeah, it's not as if the Americans would go "Oh no, they captured our sacred leader, we must capitulate."

A Wallace presidency might be... interesting, though. Back in the glory days of soc.history.what-if one fellow posted a very long alternate history timeline with a similar starting point (with Roosevelt dead of a stroke right after Pearl Harbor rather than captured). While this timeline was deliberately designed to become about as awful as possible and it might all be summed up by that saying about which road is paved with good intentions, the early parts weren't too implausible; the whole thing is collected here:

http://www.alternatehistory.com/foralltime/

 

[cubsfan6506]

Yeah and then we'll still have the Pacific Fleet intact. We would of crushed them. That's right sooner.

 

[West 36]

Some people just watch to much Batman...

 

[Agent Cooper]

And besides the Japanese would never surprise attack a US military base, because of the reprec...

wait. nevermind

I believe I've read somewhere, that the Japanese actually had a diplomat or someone in Washington with orders to hand over a decleration of war, just before the Pearl Harbour strike. But because of circumstances, the diplomat wasn't able to deliver the message to the Americans until after the attack, meaning the attack itself became a sneak attack by chance.

Don't know if this is completely true though...

 

[ParkCungHee]

I've heard this as well. The declaration was supposed to come very shortly before the attack, which was still supposed to be a surprise, but a surprise in the sense the D-Day was, not in the way Barbarosa was. However its not a very reliable source I'm getting this from (Japanese Military Memior)

 

[TheBladeRoden]

twould make for a great video game plot.