WilliamOfOrange
Emperor
But, how would this be useful, as the current games or not in there? I am assuming there is a way, what is it?
Jason score calculations...
- Thread starter Caldazar
- Start date
I'm only suggesting that this is useful after you have finished (and everyone else too) to get an idea of how well you scored in your milking. The calculator is deliberately not updated for games that are currently in progress as it is considered a "spoiler".
Celebithil
Warlord
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2004
- Messages
- 219
Well, the number I would like to know is the MaxTurnScore (as in the description to the Jason scores), however this number is not published, and I am unable to see how to calculate it. (it is MaxScore (which is given) / MapModifier (which I don't know)).
Do you know a way to reconstruct this number?
Do you know a way to reconstruct this number?
If it's important to you, have a look at how the calculator dates work for older games. Look at the pattern, and it will probably give you a rough ideal of how they'll operate in your current game. If you have played enough of your game to know what kind of map you're on you may be able to find a similar enough previous game to get a good feel for what the dates will be, at least relative to one another.
MaxTurnScore is equal to (4 * total_workable_tiles + total_food)/3.
Where total_food is the food per turn available on the whole map, and total_workable_tiles is the total land and coast tiles on the map.
As indicated in the description, this is derived from:
domination_limit = total_workable_tiles * 2/3
happy_citizens = domination_limit
specialists = (total_food * 2/3 - happy_citizens * 2) / 2
MaxTurnScore = 2 * happy_citizens + domination_limit + 1 * specialists
Do the algebra and you should get to the formula at the top.
For an agricultural civ this value is incremented by (total_workable_tiles * 2/3)/21 to account for the extra food in the city centers.
Where total_food is the food per turn available on the whole map, and total_workable_tiles is the total land and coast tiles on the map.
As indicated in the description, this is derived from:
domination_limit = total_workable_tiles * 2/3
happy_citizens = domination_limit
specialists = (total_food * 2/3 - happy_citizens * 2) / 2
MaxTurnScore = 2 * happy_citizens + domination_limit + 1 * specialists
Do the algebra and you should get to the formula at the top.
For an agricultural civ this value is incremented by (total_workable_tiles * 2/3)/21 to account for the extra food in the city centers.
Dianthus said:Welcome to CFC Celebithil
Have you seen the following calculator on the GOTM site?
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/calculator/index.php
This only gets updated once the current GOTM is completed, so you'll have to be patient and wait a bit if you're talking about GOTM35 or C3C COTM5.
Then how are people posting Jason scores in the spoiler threads?
Renata <-- just finished, and curious how her sloppy-but-fun game stacks up
solenoozerec
Stranger
Renata said:
Apparently you never submited a game before.
Welcome to GOTM/COTM
Submit it and you will know your score
Its automatic.We do not know all these parameters, but Ainwood and server know.
AlanH's new submission process should send you an email giving you that information. That's how I know, anyway! Did you not get the email?Renata said:
She has, but it's been a while, GOTM20!solenoozerec said:Apparently you never submited a game before.
Welcome to GOTM/COTM
Ahhhhh, I gettit. Thanks! You're right, Dianthus, we did things differently back in the old days. *cough*
I haven't submitted yet -- finished last night just before bedtime with no energy to figure out the submissions process (not that I'm guessing it's all that hard), and now have to trot off to work. So it'll have to wait until tonight.
And thanks for the welcome (back), Solen.
Renata
I haven't submitted yet -- finished last night just before bedtime with no energy to figure out the submissions process (not that I'm guessing it's all that hard), and now have to trot off to work. So it'll have to wait until tonight.
And thanks for the welcome (back), Solen.
Renata
Hi Renata,
You were here for a while when I first showed up, then you left mysteriously after GOTM 20
I always wondered if it was something I said 
You're actually still registered as GOTM Staff, I believe, but you haven't shown up there yet :hint:
Yes, I think you'll find the submission process is pretty straightforward. Please tell it you're an existing player - it should remember you
You were here for a while when I first showed up, then you left mysteriously after GOTM 20
I always wondered if it was something I said You're actually still registered as GOTM Staff, I believe, but you haven't shown up there yet :hint:Yes, I think you'll find the submission process is pretty straightforward. Please tell it you're an existing player - it should remember you
Yup, it was the way you said hello. Just freaked me out, I had to get out of there.
No, for real, something about installing my cable modem messed up my video card. Or maybe it had nothing to do with the modem and just happened to occur at the same time. At any rate, any game I tried to play after that crashed my computer. I couldn't fix it myself, and without Civ-capability I was useless to the GOTM staff, so I just sort of slunk off in shame. Stupid and obnoxious of me.
But anyway ... yes, I still have forum access! Terrible oversight of Ainwood's really ....
Renata
No, for real, something about installing my cable modem messed up my video card. Or maybe it had nothing to do with the modem and just happened to occur at the same time. At any rate, any game I tried to play after that crashed my computer. I couldn't fix it myself, and without Civ-capability I was useless to the GOTM staff, so I just sort of slunk off in shame. Stupid and obnoxious of me.
But anyway ... yes, I still have forum access! Terrible oversight of Ainwood's really ....
Renata
solenoozerec
Stranger
Renata said:And thanks for the welcome (back), Solen.
Oooops
solenoozerec
Stranger
AlanH said:
Actually, I REGISTERED in January. I JOINED this forum and GOTM only with COTM2.
My guess that she is new for GOTM (though, not new for the forum, 1215 post say about something
) was based not on the fact that I haven't seen her before. I have not seen many people who are much longer here. My wrong assumption was about the current game submission system and Jason score. I thought they existed much longer, so that if someone played once he/she should know about them.
Nothing is happening in this forum. When GOTM36 pre-game discussion will start? Or when COTM5 results will be published? Or, at least, when SirPleb will post his spoiler?
You weren't in a position to know, but I only unleashed the current submission system in April/May this year. It was one of the things that made it possible to run two games a month. Before that we were running a backlog processing just one game a month.solenoozerec said:
The GOTM36 pre-game thread will be released around the 10th. COTM 5 results are delayed a day or two by Ainwood's foreign travels. SirPleb decides when he'll publish his spoiler.
solenoozerec
Stranger
AlanH said:
And this is why it is bothering me
:SirPleb said:
It was > 24 hours ago. I hope he is writing. After I read it I will be able to relax for a weekend
and not to think about it. Nice Avatar, btv.
Mistfit.Celebithil
Warlord
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2004
- Messages
- 219
I have waited until the weekend to take a thorough look at the Jason score formula and explanation, as given on this website. AlanH, the formula you gave is pretty much what is described in the explanation, but it does not take into account the fact that on the city square one cannot have a happy citizen. Furthermore I checked in my savefile, and quite a few sea squares are at unreachable places in the sea, so you cannot have a happy citizen there, and furthermore it makes it hard to get 2/3 of the sea squares in your territory (I didn't by a large margin, but that could be my non-optimal play), so I think your formula comes out a bit large. Is this the real formula used in calculations?
I have also tried to reconstruct my calculations, but my scores just don't seem to add up. If someone could give a sample calculation with actual numbers (such that the result plugged into the calculator returns the same value) I would be much obliged. Right now I can only calculate Jason scores correctly for histographic victories.
I have also tried to reconstruct my calculations, but my scores just don't seem to add up. If someone could give a sample calculation with actual numbers (such that the result plugged into the calculator returns the same value) I would be much obliged. Right now I can only calculate Jason scores correctly for histographic victories.
The formula I gave is the one that's been used since GOTM 19 ,and is approximate with respect to the city squares, as you say. I guess happy_citizens could be equal to domination_limit * 20/21, but it isn't.
Sea tiles are not included in the total_workable_tiles. It's land plus coast.
Concerning your attempt to reproduce the Jason score for non-histographic victories, I think the page you are looking at, which hasn't been reviewed during my time on the staff, is still giving the old pre-GOTM 19 version. if you view the source of the online calculator page you can see how the calculator does it. Look at the Javascript Recalc() function, which implements both the old and new versions of the Jason formula.
PS. Disclaimer: I'm only reporting the way the Jason calculation works. I didn't invent it and don't profess to understand the "curve". I simply adapted the code to calculate Jason scores on demand in various places - for online submissions, the online calculator and so on. Aeson's your man if you need to know *why* it's the way it is.
Sea tiles are not included in the total_workable_tiles. It's land plus coast.
Concerning your attempt to reproduce the Jason score for non-histographic victories, I think the page you are looking at, which hasn't been reviewed during my time on the staff, is still giving the old pre-GOTM 19 version. if you view the source of the online calculator page you can see how the calculator does it. Look at the Javascript Recalc() function, which implements both the old and new versions of the Jason formula.
PS. Disclaimer: I'm only reporting the way the Jason calculation works. I didn't invent it and don't profess to understand the "curve". I simply adapted the code to calculate Jason scores on demand in various places - for online submissions, the online calculator and so on. Aeson's your man if you need to know *why* it's the way it is.
Celebithil
Warlord
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2004
- Messages
- 219
AlanH, thanks a lot for your advise to look at te Recalc() function; I don't know that much about computers and did not realise I could do that. Now I can at least calculate the Jasonscore correctly, and I can hence analyse it better.
As for the MaxTurnScore, I think that if you do not take into account the sea-squares, one can beat the MaxTurnScore, by obtaining enough territory in the sea, and working it. This offsets any diminishing of score due to having no happy faces in city-squares easily. One final technical question though, total_food is calculated as all the food on the map, but I guess this is without ocean squares, and perhaps also without sea-squares?
All these technical details have led me at least to an idea to score higher Jason-scores for mediocre players (such as me). The goal is milk the game. For it is much easier to play optimally after you reach the domination limit than before. Since the loss in Basescore you have is averaged over all turns, the longer you play, the bigger the denominator and the lower the actual loss in Jason score. More concretely, in GOTM 34 I should have abandoned my 20k-culture city and sold all my culture buildings and milked to 2050. If I had kept my PerTurn score equal I would have scored 700 Jason points more. On the other hand, if you do well it is probably better to stop quickly and keep the relative high gain. Ronald (the mastermilker in GOTM34) would have scored more points by scoring a conquest victory in 700 AD (which he probably easily could have, since the AI had been down to 1 city for more than 10 turns at that date) and actually have scored a gold!
As for the MaxTurnScore, I think that if you do not take into account the sea-squares, one can beat the MaxTurnScore, by obtaining enough territory in the sea, and working it. This offsets any diminishing of score due to having no happy faces in city-squares easily. One final technical question though, total_food is calculated as all the food on the map, but I guess this is without ocean squares, and perhaps also without sea-squares?
All these technical details have led me at least to an idea to score higher Jason-scores for mediocre players (such as me). The goal is milk the game. For it is much easier to play optimally after you reach the domination limit than before. Since the loss in Basescore you have is averaged over all turns, the longer you play, the bigger the denominator and the lower the actual loss in Jason score. More concretely, in GOTM 34 I should have abandoned my 20k-culture city and sold all my culture buildings and milked to 2050. If I had kept my PerTurn score equal I would have scored 700 Jason points more. On the other hand, if you do well it is probably better to stop quickly and keep the relative high gain. Ronald (the mastermilker in GOTM34) would have scored more points by scoring a conquest victory in 700 AD (which he probably easily could have, since the AI had been down to 1 city for more than 10 turns at that date) and actually have scored a gold!
