Jews before Israel

[Furry Spatula]

Ok well first things first, I know that there are many Israeli's or people who are sympathetic to Israel in this forum so I am going to try to step on as few toes as I can, I honestly dont think that Israel should have been created where it was but that isn't the fault of the Jews in any way, more Britain and the UN for not thinking things through.

But on to my question. Is it just me or is Israel being a bit hypocrytical right now with their stance on terrorism in their country? Didn't the Jew's bomb British government buildings before Israel was established durring the British mandate?

I definatly think things should be left as they are now as trying to move any group of people would be insane and cause even more problems. I think that we can say that the Middle East is deffinate proof that colonies and mandates where the worst things ever done to people. I dont think that Israel has a legitimate claim to the land that Israel is on because the Balfour Decleration was pretty much a one sided thing. Palestinians in that land had no say in what would happen. Yes when the Ottoman Empire was broken up in the war the British claimed it, however, Did the Palestinians and Arabs in that area fight against the British or allies? No, oil is the reason all this crap happened.

And the UN making Israel a state, why was the UN involved? I realy am against the UN. A dispute between two groups of people should be resolved by those people Other countries should not be able to be involved in imposing a solution.

Ok by now I'm sure i probably pissed off some people here so I guess I'll start to wrap it up now. I think that the best solution here would be to give the Palestinians back the land that originaly belonged to them right after the creation of Israel, right before the immenant war. After all the UN charter says that war is not an acceptable way to aquire land. And, well, land was aquired after war. Mind you I am not sure as to what land was offered to the Palestinians before in previous treaty discussions so I may be off on that one.

To conclude, I just want to make it clear that I do not doubt that Jewish people had it tough in anyway. I know that they did. But I am just saying that it seems hypocrytical for one group of people who were homeless and nomadic to some extent to kick another group of people out of their land and then play the high moral card. And yes I am a right winger you dont need to tell me that. And also, this is a rethorical question, why is that even an insult? I know im a Right winger, a conservative, so why do you feel the need to tell me I am one?

 

[napoleon526]

I think that the best solution here would be to give the Palestinians back the land that originaly belonged to them right after the creation of Israel, right before the immenant war. After all the UN charter says that war is not an acceptable way to aquire land. And, well, land was aquired after war. Mind you I am not sure as to what land was offered to the Palestinians before in previous treaty discussions so I may be off on that one.

The problem with this is the fact that many Palestinians say that all of Israel belongs to them. They say that the Jewish nation should be destroyed and they refuse to even acknowledge it's existance. While this view is held only by a minority of Palestinians, the ones that adhere to this view are the ones who strap bombs to themselves and blow themselves up. On the other side, many Israelis think that a Palestinian state should not exist, since it would only be a base for continued attacks against Israel. Unless more moderate leaders take power on both sides, lasting peace will not be achieved.

One question: If you're a right-winger, why do you call yourself a "damn commie?"

 

[Alcibiaties of Athenae]

Originally posted by Furry Spatula
Ok well first things first, I know that there are many Israeli's or people who are sympathetic to Israel in this forum so I am going to try to step on as few toes as I can, I honestly dont think that Israel should have been created where it was but that isn't the fault of the Jews in any way, more Britain and the UN for not thinking things through.

Nonsense, it's their historical homeland and always was.
Only Islamic fundementalists dispute this, and it was never up to Britain or the UN, they only mediated a process they hoped would end peacefully.
Thanks to the Islamic nations, it did not.

But on to my question. Is it just me or is Israel being a bit hypocrytical right now with their stance on terrorism in their country? Didn't the Jew's bomb British government buildings before Israel was established durring the British mandate?

As did the arab side to a lesser extent, and wasn't Britian being hypocritical during the mandate to allow unlimited Islamic immigration yet often stop or greatly curtail Jewish immigration?
The early Jewish movement was treated unfiarly during the mandate, a quick look at the facts makes this crystal clear.

I definatly think things should be left as they are now as trying to move any group of people would be insane and cause even more problems. I think that we can say that the Middle East is deffinate proof that colonies and mandates where the worst things ever done to people. I dont think that Israel has a legitimate claim to the land that Israel is on because the Balfour Decleration was pretty much a one sided thing. Palestinians in that land had no say in what would happen. Yes when the Ottoman Empire was broken up in the war the British claimed it, however, Did the Palestinians and Arabs in that area fight against the British or allies? No, oil is the reason all this crap happened.

What oil is that?
The lands of Israel have no oil, so this line of argument makes no sense.
Balfour's declartion was recognition of a process that was going to happen eventually, the Jews would regain their homeland.
Britain also made similar promises to the Arab side, BTW.

And the UN making Israel a state, why was the UN involved? I realy am against the UN. A dispute between two groups of people should be resolved by those people Other countries should not be able to be involved in imposing a solution.

As I said earlier, they attempted to make it a peaceful process, and eben here they were blatantly unfair to the Jewish side, who were not allowed to emigrate freely to their nation, nor to move the weapons needed to defense to Israel, all were impeded by Britain while the UN looked the other way, yet no such limitations were given to the Arab side.
Britain even went to far as to force a ship load of Holocaust surviors to return to Germany from Israel's coast, at GUNPOINT, after they violently boarded the ship in international waters (In VIOLATION of international law, BTW).

Ok by now I'm sure i probably pissed off some people here so I guess I'll start to wrap it up now. I think that the best solution here would be to give the Palestinians back the land that originaly belonged to them right after the creation of Israel, right before the immenant war. After all the UN charter says that war is not an acceptable way to aquire land. And, well, land was aquired after war. Mind you I am not sure as to what land was offered to the Palestinians before in previous treaty discussions so I may be off on that one.

THEY started the war, with the expressed intention of driving every Jew into the sea, and you say Israel should give them land they have no right too because 50+ years later some Europeans feel bad when Israel resists violent terror aimed at it?
Such a paragrapgh is beneath comtempt.

To conclude, I just want to make it clear that I do not doubt that Jewish people had it tough in anyway. I know that they did. But I am just saying that it seems hypocrytical for one group of people who were homeless and nomadic to some extent to kick another group of people out of their land and then play the high moral card. And yes I am a right winger you dont need to tell me that. And also, this is a rethorical question, why is that even an insult? I know im a Right winger, a conservative, so why do you feel the need to tell me I am one?

They are (the Pals) what they are because they refused to live in peace, they wanted the Jews dead and gone, and have attempted this for over 50 years.
No Palestian ever had any right to deny a Jew the land he bought with his own money, yet this is EXACTLY what they tried to do, and you say the JEWS are hypocritical?
I sugest you look up the meaning of that word sir.
Did you know, for example, in Haifa in 1947 the Jewish mayor BEGGED the islamics not to leave, and was told "We will be back, and we will have it all when you are dead".
Yes, they sure should be pitied.

No offense to you, I'm sure your well meaning, but this is EXACTLY the kind of propaganda Hammas and like minded groups have been sending out for years concerning Israel.
They don't want a Palestine out of the West bank and Gaza strip, they want it ALL, as their charter says.

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/mideast/hamas.htm

http://www.jewishpost.com/jp0203/jpn0303.htm

After reading those links, do you STILL think the Jews are wrong and that the Palestians can be reasoned with?

 

[Ozz]

Moderator Action: Attempt to troll me again and you will be gone.

This is your one and only warning.

AoA
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Alcibiaties of Athenae]

Since I can see were this is going, thread closed.

Edit: We have many threads about the middle east in the Off Topic, it is best to discuss this issue there.

Thank you for your attention.