johny smith's ideas/suggestions

[johny smith]

Before someone kicks my tail out of my own ignorance due to posting off thread topics. I thought I would just start another thread. C2C has quite a bit of things added so I was curious if there is a manual for all of these additions. Being a lazy modder in my previous life I understand the point of "well if you care so much open up the civlopedia". I thought this might be at least a useful thread to strut C2C. I am looking for key features and a copy paste list of the basics. Like what are the current civs, terrains, resources, religions, corporations... Yes I know this probably should be known already by the active community, but I for one am not active. I know their are many new mechanisms in play, and perhaps that would help explain to the lower end people of knowledge individuals like myself. I would like to know a civ list if possible, or just feel free to bombard this thread with differences between default BtS.

If there is already some manual, I am sorry I have not seen a link. Live long and prosperous.

Moderator Action: Moved to C2C strategy.

 

[teakbois]

The first few posts here
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=288570

Have quite a bit of info

 

[johny smith]

So is this civ list up to date?

Spoiler :

Aborigine
Ainu
Aka
American
Apache
Arabian
Arawak
Armenian
Assyrian
Australian
Austrian
Aztec
Babylonian
Bandanese
Basque
Belgian
Bengali
Benin
Berber
Brazilian
Burmese
Byzantine
Canadian
Cantonese
Carib
Carthaginian
Celtic
Cetacea Sapien
Ceylonese
Cham
Cherokee
Cheyenne
Chinese
Chola
Chumash
Comanche
Confederate
Cree
Cuban
Dahomey
Dene
Dutch
Egyptian
English
Ethiopian
Franks
French
Fulani
German
Goth
Greek
Haida
Haitian
Hausa
Herero
Hittite
Holy Roman
Hopi
Hun
Hungarian
Huron
Incan
Indian
Indonesian
Inuit
Irish
Iroquois
Israeli
Italian
Japanese
Jivaro
Jomon
Joseon
Kanem-Bornu
Khmer
Klamath
Kongolese
Korean
Luba
Malinese
Manchurian
Mapuche
Maori
Masai
Mayan
Merina
Mexican
Minoan
Moche
Mongolian
Moraccan
Mugahal
Mutapa
Navajo
Nazca
Nepalese
Neanderthal
New Zealand
Nootka
Nubian
Olmec
Ottoman
Pakistani
Papuan
Parthian
Persian
Phoenican
Polish
Polynesian
Portuguese
Prussian
Quechua
Rapa Nui
Roman
Russian
Sassanian
Saxon
Scottish
Scythian
Seminole
Shang
Siamese
Siberian
Sioux
Somali
South African
Spanish
Spartan
Sumerian
Swahili
Swazi
Swiss
Syrian
Tamil
Thai
Tibetan
Toltec
Trojan
Tuareg
Tupi
Turkmen
Uighur
Venezuelan
Vietnamese
Viking
Welish
Xiongnu
Yamato
Zapotec
Zulu

 

[Hydromancerx]

@johny smith

Those are "cultures" not "civs".

Civ = A playable empire with specific Leaders relate to that culture. However they do not have any UB or UU. Only regional cultures such as African, Asian, Middle Eastern, etc.

Culture = Enabled by a culture wonder which provides a culture resource. Each culture can have a special unit, building and/or heroic unit. Most cultures have a unit, while some of the original core have 1 or 2 heroic units. While others may have a special building or share a building with a few similar cultures.

If you want more specific info look in the pedia or in my signature.

My online C2C document ha 6 pages.

Tech Tree
Which is mostly up to date and shows every tech and where they are located on the tree.

Unit Timeline
This is unfinished but shows were many units sit on the tech tree as well as their strength.

Culture (By Name)
I try to keep this up to date. It shows all cultures, what they require and what unit they have. Note this is continually being changed and adjusted as we add more units and cultures.

Culture (By Resource)
I also try to keep this up to date. It lists all resources and which cultures require it by their region.

Leaders
This is out of date and I may remove the page. It got too complex to keep track of with all the trait changes.

Units
This was more for reference for ls612 when redoing the Aircraft. Since tags and names did not match up. I may add more in the future.

In short the Tech Tree and the Culture (By Name) are the 2 more useful ones for the average player which is why I keep links in my signature (in blue). However you can see the rest by click on the tabs at the top of the page.

 

[johny smith]

The culture names are all of the possible civilizations in the game? I am curious as to what has already been used or available. I am currently trying to figure out what prehistoric civs are in the Americas, and if I could help on any of it.

Apache North American Prehistoric
Carib North American Prehistoric
Chumash North American Prehistoric
Cree North American Prehistoric
Huron North American Prehistoric
Inuit North American Prehistoric
Iroquois North American Prehistoric
Mayan North American Prehistoric
Navajo North American Prehistoric
Nootka North American Prehistoric
Sioux North American Prehistoric
Incan South American Prehistoric
Quechua South American Prehistoric

 

[strategyonly]

Glad you did this, i was going to do a "Did You Know" but this is ok.

So here goes:

When making a resource from killing an animal:

It was about 20% of the time you would have captured (iirc) but only if the plot does not already have a resource and if it is not next to a resource of the same type. People were complaining that they were getting large areas of deer for example. Which is the reason for the last restriction.

What is your starting date all about?

We've had a 50,000 BC start date for a year now, and while that is slightly unrealistic as we don't do ice ages, it is pretty good within what we have.

Is it possible to have an Over World and a Under World, like in Zelda (1986)?

It's entirely possible - you'd just need a special map script that generated one constrained by the other so they 'matched up'

How come there is so much Flammability events or just plain events going on?

We are working on a better solution. Currently there are too few events in the Prehistoric Era which means that the ones that are there are happening to often.

Do players opting to play without GG's can never get Heroic I or II?
Isn't having Lead by Noble/Warlord, aso, being on the unit enough?

I believe the Noble does the same thing as a GG code-wise, so yes. But if you don't use GGs the odds of ever getting Heroic I or II are much lower.

This is only from my 1st page of stuff i have, there are ALOT more coming?? If needed?

 

[strategyonly]

The culture names are all of the possible civilizations in the game? I am curious as to what has already been used or available. I am currently trying to figure out what prehistoric civs are in the Americas, and if I could help on any of it.

OK, actually i want ALL of them, hows that for an answer. Same goes for the rest of the world, even if they for NOW are just Leaderheads of the Civilizations, as per the Huns.*(Attila)

 

[Hydromancerx]

The culture names are all of the possible civilizations in the game? I am curious as to what has already been used or available. I am currently trying to figure out what prehistoric civs are in the Americas, and if I could help on any of it.

As posted in the other thread ...

The North American cultures so far are ...

Spoiler :

- American
- Apache
- Aztec
- Canadian
- Cherokee
- Cheyenne
- Chumash
- Comanche
- Confederate
- Cree
- Cuban
- Dene
- Haida
- Haitian
- Hopi
- Huron
- Inuit
- Iroquois
- Klamath
- Mayan
- Mexican
- Nootka
- Olmec
- Seminole
- Sioux
- Toltec
- Zapotec

And South American ...

Spoiler :

- Arawak
- Brazilian
- Incan
- Jivaro
- Mapuche
- Moche
- Nazca
- Quechua
- Tupi
- Venezuelan

And ones I plan to do in my next set of 20 cultures ...

Spoiler :

North American
- Californian
- Huastec
- Jamaican
- Mixtec
- Tarascan
- Texan
- Tlatilco
- Tlaxcaltec
- Totonac

South American
- Argentinian[

Note not all of these are Prehistoric. We have ones from all Eras.

 

[johny smith]

Thanks. I am going to look for ones that are previous archaeological known ones. I do not know what tribes names would be attached to them though since there has been a broken link after European contact.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I'd be interested in seeing how many Prehistorical cultures we could define... So far ALL our cultures are Ancient and since and it'd be nice to have a number of 'original human group' definitions for Prehistorical reference (as far as paleontologists have been able to define anyhow...)

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Thunderbrd

Here is a list of all Cultures that are triggered by Prehistoric techs. Note they may or may not be historically prehistoric.

Spoiler :

- Aborigine (Oceanian) = Petroglyphs
- Ainu (Asian) = Animism
- Aka (African) = Gathering
- Apache (North American) = Bead Making
- Basque (European) = Livestock Domestication
- Carib (North American) = Boat Building
- Chumash (North American) = Petroglyphs
- Cree (North American) = Tracking
- Egyptian (African) = Ceremonial Burial
- Huron (North American) = Trap Fising
- Incan (South American) = Stone Buildings
- Indonesian (Asian) = Boat Building
- Inuit (North American) = Canine Domestication
- Iroquois (North American) = Wood Working
- Kongolese (African) = Warfare
- Maori (Oceanian) = Prehistoric
- Mayan (North American) = Petroglyphs (Probbly going to move them to Pictographs or Ideograms)
- Navajo (North American) = Animism
- Neanderthal (-) = Cave Dwelling
- Nootka (North American) = Wood Working
- Papuan (Oceanian) = Ritualism
- Polynesian (Oceanian) = Boat Fishing
- Quechua (South American) = Camel Domestication
- Rapa Nui (Oceanian) = Megalith Construction
- Sioux (North American) = Portable Shelters
- Swahili (African) = Boat Fishing
- Tupi (South American) = Poison Crafting
- Zulu (African) = Warfare

Note their unique units may or may not be prehistoric. Such as the Apache has Apache Calvary unit that comes WAY later.

----

Theses are new and have not been given a tech yet but may be Prehistoric ...

Spoiler :

- Arawak (South American)
- Dene (North American)
- Haida (North American)
- Moche (South American)
- Nazca (South American)

 

[Thunderbrd]

What I'd be interested in is finding and defining some cultures that the initial tribes could start as for the purpose of fleshing out part of the Adopt a Culture mechanism. Under this planned concept, you could only select actual civilizations that start in the age you are starting the game in and you automatically begin with the culture building built (so you begin with one specific culture resource) and evolve it out from there. The truly prehistoric 'groups' of people is what I'm looking for there. (There's more to this 'plan' where cause and effect are concerned - limiting the leaders you can begin with to being leaders OF the culture has a big role in all that - and leaders change as time goes on in that setup.) Too much to explain all here but I'm just trying to get the point across that we're talking about groupings of tribes that at this point only have anthropological termed reference names as any 'name' for that 'culture' would never have really been established or if it was has long been forgotten.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Thunderbrd

Is hard to say for some groups. For instance a Tribe may exist in prehistoric times but then not progress technologically and become a modern version with similar traditions. But are not the "same".

For instance we know there were Arctic peoples who killed marine mammals like whales and seals in prehistoric times. However in more moderns the Inuit do this because their ancestors did and its tradition (sadly a fading one). Does that make the prehistoric people Inuits? I am not so sure.

Another example would be the Amish who's culture has them living without modern technology. Certainly people did live like them back in the day but not everyone was Amish who lived that way. You see what I mean?

 

[johny smith]

Some of the links are very clearly known for example.

The Na-Dene group that I assume you mean by your Dene go by the name for the entire group by Athabaskan. The Navajo and Apache migrated from the Sub-Arctic down to the southwest. Both the Navajo and Apache probably come from one group. The Navajo is one tribe and their are many Apaches. Aztecs share even a root from the Great Basin region along with the Comanche.

I would want a clear early Southwest US civ that had farming where many learned different techniques. I mean they were very unique in building water catching systems, roads, and are known for the Kivas. The Navajo and Apache adopted the culture of the area when moving to region, and preserved their language.

Another large group would be the moundbuilders of the east. The people who were there domesticated many early crops that are not thought of as weeds and some that are used today.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Agricultural_Complex

The Pacific Northwest always remained hunter and gathers because there was ample resources, but there is much more complexity in what they still do to this day. The Haida are one of the groups that really came to spotlight because of their resurgence in art, but are just one group of a vast trading network before Europeans. I would see the Salish being one of the most important to give a name for many tribes. I do not know if you want conglomerates or not.

The oldest known accepted sites of the Americas are pre-Clovis technology sites. The discovery Monte Verde changed the entire timeline for Archaeologists of the Americas because the site had proof that people were here before the last glacier melt. Anyway their some locations and documented patterns, but no known name for most because their were no people documenting the group.

So what I am saying is these tribes could splinter from larger regional groups, but I do not know if that is what you looking for. Or you could use a name of a tribe to say they the continuation of the culture.

I just quickly found this page to hope and explain better. I have not scrutinized it, but it looked good for a general overview of the culture regions of the entire Americas.

http://www.essential-humanities.net/world-history/history-of-the-pre-colonial-americas/

 

[strategyonly]

Anyway their some locations and documented patterns, but no known name for most because their were no people documenting the group.

that is the main problem with alot of the culture/tribes back then, per se Anasazi: No one would have heard of them if it wasn't for a very little stone writing they had about aliens visiting them or the like, etc.
http://video.answers.com/ancient-aliens-legends-of-the-anasazi-517570317

 

[johny smith]

that is the main problem with alot of the culture/tribes back then, per se Anasazi: No one would have heard of them if it wasn't for a very little stone writing they had about aliens visiting them or the like, etc.
http://video.answers.com/ancient-aliens-legends-of-the-anasazi-517570317

if funny aliens come up for any culture that people are busy looting

 

[johny smith]

Sorry wrote the last comment on my smart phone.

Anasazi for example have a fairly well documented case, and people would not want to use them. I am doing archaeology, and their is constant destruction of sites because things like alien shows on the history channel dumbing down the population and ignoring information. It sucks politically because there are bunch of people walking around clueless and laughing about it. Then buying artifacts on ebay.

There is no way the current culture mechanism can represent accurately the previous prehistoric cultures. Civilization tries to have groups start and never change who they are. This is impossible to model even a stretched reality version of the cultures. Romans are not Italians. Babylonians are not Sumerians. Modern India is not the kingdoms of the Vedic.

If you change that equation to areas that are not in the old world you will get all sort of illogical ideas that people will complain about, but it seems perfectly natural for modern nations that are "important" to do this. So Mexico is the Aztecs (at least the flag means something) Peru is the Incas? What about Bolivia? Is Greenland (even though the name comes from Viking) now Inuit?

I do not want to mod silly illogical equations. So the only suggestion I have is cultures are only for a given era. I know somethings about the development in different stages of these people with no "real name". I could make a model if there is change. It is not like most of what has been created is even close to accurate because of the design of the core game. If you want to romanticize nationalistic ideas that some group was around from the beginning of time than I cannot help you on that. I really do not know the fantasy stories behind those myths. Nor do I care to shovel in crap.

So anyway if you guys are really interested in changing things let me know. If not maybe I may try modding it myself just depends if I have the time, and may be able to actually do something constructive to remove ideas like found in civilization the game in other ways.

 

[strategyonly]

Anaasází. PC native name-Ancient Pueblo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Pueblo_Peoples

Done, see modmod thread.

 

[johny smith]

I posted some links for images to better actually understand the culture practices for the Anasazi. I will look for some Pueblo name for a leader.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=487953

 

[johny smith]

Here is a short book to explain some of tribes.

http://books.google.com/books?id=Wx...EYQ6AEwBTge#v=onepage&q=moundbuilders&f=false

Here is a book I found quickly on the web for moundbuilders
http://books.google.com/books?id=TmVsbCbvb34C&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

And here is a timeline from the last book link.

Another good book for quick references.
http://books.google.com/books?id=P2...a=X&ei=uA4UUebWD8r3iwLJuYG4Cg&ved=0CDUQ6AEwAA

I could dig for more sources to give more dates but most are not available for free. I have some know that I am looking over for my class but they are copyrighted, but I do not want to hear more BS about you cannot show me one of the 50 books written on the subject. So anyway if someone cares let me know.