Joint Wars

[ltccone]

Exactly how are joint wars supposed to work? They seem to involve civs that you have good relations with, civs that are incapable of actually attacking you, or civs that are way behind in tech or military power.

I don't see how joint wars are working as intended.

 

[Tech Osen]

It's feels very random at times. I have had two green smilies declare joint war on me. And they usually amount to very little. Usually only one actually shows up halfheartedly and I have to send out my fleet halfway across the world to bombard some sense into the other before he wants peace again.
Last game playing France I wanted a peaceful cultural win but Persia and Pericles with the darwinist agenda wouldn't have it and they even dragged my neighbor India into their warmongering. In the end I had a cultural win after whiping India and Greece of the map...

 

[ltccone]

It's feels very random at times. I have had two green smilies declare joint war on me. And they usually amount to very little. Usually only one actually shows up halfheartedly and I have to send out my fleet halfway across the world to bombard some sense into the other before he wants peace again.
Last game playing France I wanted a peaceful cultural win but Persia and Pericles with the darwinist agenda wouldn't have it and they even dragged my neighbor India into their warmongering. In the end I had a cultural win after whiping India and Greece of the map...

What is frustrating is that they won't make peace unless you kill one of their units, or bombard a city. And I usually play on the Giant TSL Earth map, and it is frustrating to have to send a fleet half way around the world to kill something so they will make peace; I feel your pain...

 

[Victoria]

Joint wars are something you take advantage of.

Talk to any civ that has not denounced you and click make a deal and see who they are willing to joint war with you for. Naturally the more friendly they are the greater the range and higher the willingness.
There does seem to be a random factor involved so there is no guarantee but as long as its on that list you sometimes have to pay them to do it.
The advantages of a joint war are

1. You get +5 for "We fought a joint war together". This degrades one point every 20 turns so is a pretty nice short and medium term diplomatic modifier.
2. You get to declare the joint war against an enemy without any warning. So you get to perform a surprise war with the penalties of a formal war. As I understand it this penalty also affects the penalty for each city taken.
3. You can joint war with a civ way over the map, you can see that gorgo is running away with the game attacking lots of people and then when they stop war, find someone they denounced and declare a joint war against her and watch her go into revolt.

Now turning that around, its likely just what the AI is doing to you....

1. making friends at your expense
2. getting the jump on you in the "best possible taste"
3. Tiring you out if you look like winning

Normally in a joint war one of the two protagonists is close enough to raid and pillage if you have troops doing nothing. They declare peace. Then look at the size of the other civs armies in the victory screen and grow your larger than theirs and once I think at about 120% they will likely pay you to stop making pointless troops.

If I am just having fun I often have a couple of privateers. These are great as with the right card getting +50 science for raiding a mine is nice, let alone plundering trade routes and just generally causing havoc.

 

[ltccone]

Joint wars are something you take advantage of.

Talk to any civ that has not denounced you and click make a deal and see who they are willing to joint war with you for. Naturally the more friendly they are the greater the range and higher the willingness.
There does seem to be a random factor involved so there is no guarantee but as long as its on that list you sometimes have to pay them to do it.
The advantages of a joint war are

1. You get +5 for "We fought a joint war together". This degrades one point every 20 turns so is a pretty nice short and medium term diplomatic modifier.
2. You get to declare the joint war against an enemy without any warning. So you get to perform a surprise war with the penalties of a formal war. As I understand it this penalty also affects the penalty for each city taken.
3. You can joint war with a civ way over the map, you can see that gorgo is running away with the game attacking lots of people and then when they stop war, find someone they denounced and declare a joint war against her and watch her go into revolt.

Now turning that around, its likely just what the AI is doing to you....

1. making friends at your expense
2. getting the jump on you in the "best possible taste"
3. Tiring you out if you look like winning

Normally in a joint war one of the two protagonists is close enough to raid and pillage if you have troops doing nothing. They declare peace. Then look at the size of the other civs armies in the victory screen and grow your larger than theirs and once I think at about 120% they will likely pay you to stop making pointless troops.

If I am just having fun I often have a couple of privateers. These are great as with the right card getting +50 science for raiding a mine is nice, let alone plundering trade routes and just generally causing havoc.

Thanks; did not know that. I have never entered into a joint war myself.

In my last game the last joint war declared against me in my last game was by Kongo and England (on the Giant TSL Earth map) and I was playing Persia. So neither civ was even close to me. England was 2 ages behind me and Kongo 3. I ravaged both of them so bad with missile cruisers and nuclear submarines that both of them gave me cities to end the war. That just doesn't make much sense to me.

 

[Victoria]

I have never entered into a joint war myself.

I never used to now I always do, whenever I can...
Think about it... you start next to Gilgamesh and Trajan... Trajan will wait I think 30 turns and then ridicule you for having 1 city and attack you... Gilgamesh likes friends but is currently -4 for first impressions.
Ask gilga early to joint war Trajan... he will happily comply often and they will reduce each others armies nicely while you build yours and BAM you pwn Trajan and with open borders, trade route, envoy, joint war and a nice deal you can best buds Gilga to take on the world as Gilga will protect you.

One thing to be careful of is a design/flaw/bug in diplomacy that seems to only kick in sometimes.

I have seen it with joint wars and friends

When my joint war is degrading it seems not to refresh to +5 until fully degraded (seen once, not always checking)
I see it often with friends which is +9... I'll go friends with someone again later while I am currently at +4 for friends (degrades 1 pt / 10 turns after friendship end) Ill refriend them and it will not update to +9.

 

[Scaramanga]

Trying to apply this to multiplayer, as far as I know anything other than a surprise war reduces your own war weariness and joint wars are considered formal wars so there's an incentive to look for a friend there; so many times in multiplayer it seems friendship has to be "enforced" ie. 2 vs 2 vs 2. Also when joint wars arrive at foreign trade it's a nice idea to start solidifying some alliances and kicking off a joint war with another human player is an appealing method.