Jon Shafer joins Stardock to work on elemental

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Zanzibar, Jan 4, 2011.

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  1. Panda_Power

    Panda_Power Warlord

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    Good luck to Jon! He is hugely talented and will make Elemental an amazing game in the future.

    Civ 5's loss is EWOM's gain!
     
  2. tokala

    tokala Emperor

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  3. moksheebs

    moksheebs Kuala Lumpur GDR

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    what's character assassination?
     
  4. krasny

    krasny Prince

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    Shafer ruins Civ 5, now he gets to work on Elemental?

    Surely this is a unique case of a rat joining a sinking ship.
     
  5. d,,p

    d,,p Guest

    http://forums.elementalgame.com/403503/page/1/#2860255

    :D
     
  6. moksheebs

    moksheebs Kuala Lumpur GDR

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    get off the internets, troll.

    Moderator Action: calling someone a troll is considered trolling on these forums
     
  7. moksheebs

    moksheebs Kuala Lumpur GDR

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    Moderator Action: Foul language is not acceptable on the forums
     
  8. moksheebs

    moksheebs Kuala Lumpur GDR

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    Moderator Action: Foul language is not acceptable on the forums
     
  9. lschnarch

    lschnarch Emperor

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    Very bad analogy.
    Not only is Football a sports in which it is the team which makes the difference, it is a sport at all. In sports, you have to deal with your opponent and the moment.

    In game designing, you have literally years of time and no opponent blocking your progress.
    Apparently, Mr. Shafer didn't realize almost any of the problems due to his core decision of going with a (failed) attempt to mimic Panzer General.
    Exactly these problems were discussed even before release here in this very forum. (And, btw, the advertised "fronts in the countryside" are still not there - fighting is still about cities)

    Mr. Shafer may be a good coder, but given the current evidence, he's not a designer.
    At least not for a Civilization type game. Just because he obviously doesn't understand this kind of games.
    But these are the games I am interested in. So the conclusion still is obvious: I won't buy a game in which Mr. Shafer has played a significant role in designing. Just because I don't trust him anymore.

    Ignorant (to make use of your words) is not to look at the evidence which assumedly rest on your harddisk.

    The design of the combat system has obvious influence on how cities work.
    Going for the falsely so-called "1upt" required low production, by that only a handful of buildings, by that limiting the choices for builder-type gamers.
    It had obviously consequences regarding the way the cultural expansion works, which avoids production related hexes as long as ever possible.
    It had obviously consequences regarding the way in which tile improvements work.
    And so on, and so on.
    You're kidding, aren't you?
    In the first poll, 64% of voters actually have voted for NOT-1upt.
    In the second poll, which was started early after release (guess why?) and which was resurrected a fortnight ago, we see that there is quite a shift in the voting.
    When the poll was bumped, it had around 800 voters with 80% voting for 1upt. Now we have around 1000 voters and 76% are in favour of 1upt.
    Which means that the 200 additional voters after Dec. 21st were in favour "only" by 60:40.
    But, if you read what people have written, you will see that quite some of the "yes" voters actually are advocating something which clearly is not "1upt". There are all kinds of suggestions for stacking: stacking of workers, stacking of ranged and melee type units, limited stackind and whatnotever.

    So, having had a short look at your "evidence", it doesn't look so strong anymore.
     
  10. Dale

    Dale Mohawk Games Developer

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    Good luck in your new endeavorer Jon.

    Whilst you're over there, teach Brad some manners. ;)
     
  11. Androrc the Orc

    Androrc the Orc Emperor

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    I wish Jon the greatest of luck in his new employment at Starbucks :)
     
  12. jprc

    jprc My dog is smarter than me

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    I thought the "misunderstanding" between you and Brad during the beta of Elemental was exagerated by rumors, but it seems the wound is still open...
    It is a matter of fact that Brad is not exactly easy-going when he comes to defending his ideas, and I still have some bruises of rugby matches i played about 30 years ago against Aussies... they are not easy going either!
    Pity to read that you are worn out by Civ 5 modding though.
    I hope Jon will be able to dodge heavy shells if his ideas are not shared by the boss!
     
  13. Androrc the Orc

    Androrc the Orc Emperor

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    Opa! Você é de Moçambique?
     
  14. moscaverde

    moscaverde Prince

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    I don't think Jon is to blame for Civ5, but I hope he doesn't do the "have you ever played Panzer General" on us again.
     
  15. RikC

    RikC Chieftain

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    Isn't keeping your employer happy and convincing them of your ideas to the point where you can realize them also part of what a talented professional should be able to do?
     
  16. LegioCorvus

    LegioCorvus Prince

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    In all honesty, this has reduced my desire to play Elemental. :(

    The hiring of Kael greatly increased my desire to check it out in the future, but this has equally reduced that. So I guess we're at where we were before. I'll check it out if I start to hear good things. (And whatever happened to the standalone Fall From Heaven being put out by Firaxis? Axed after the Civ5 fiasco?) :confused:

    Is Jon to blame for everything? Probably not.

    Is Jon completely blameless? Also no.

    The man pushed 1UPT. Admittedly, one of the features I was initially excited about for Civ5. It didn't work, and we all learned from that. At least, it didn't work in this form. I think this is one of those situations where we could only truly know how it worked after trying it. So, in a way, it's good we got it out of our system.

    Then there's global happiness, bugs, etc.

    To people that claim that Firaxis is a team, and Shafer was just some cog in a machine, read the man's own words:

    There may have been extenuating circumstances that lead to Civ5 being released the way it was. Maybe Jon put on a dog 'n' pony show to get his new job and exaggerated those circumstances. But even if Jon had all the time and budget in the world to release Civ5, do we honestly believe that things such as Global Happiness or the AI's diplomacy and military prowess would be that much better? There would be less bugs, likely, but the core gameplay came out the way it was even after early user feedback wasn't entirely positive.

    So, to Jon, good luck. I hope you learned from this experience and continue to strive to get better. Just don't give us another Final Frontier, Civ4 Espionage, or Civ5. ;)
     
  17. Zeppelin4

    Zeppelin4 Warlord

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    I love CIV 5 and really hated to see him go. :( On the other hand it will make me follow Elemental more closely now after I gave up on the game with the bad launch reviews.
     
  18. Greybriar

    Greybriar Prince

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    I don't envy Jon going to work on Elemental. If only he could make it the spiritual successor to Master of Magic that it was originally intended to be, I would be pleased as punch.

    And for those who think Jon was a nobody before Civ5, here's an FYI. According to MobyGames, Jon Shafer is credited with:
    • Sid Meier's Civilization IV: Colonization (2008), 2K Games
    • Sid Meier's Civilization IV: Beyond the Sword (2007), 2K Games
    • Sid Meier's Civilization IV: Warlords (2006), 2K Games
    • Sid Meier's Civilization IV (2005), 2K Games
    • Sid Meier's Civilization III: Conquests (2003), Atari, Inc.

    Good luck, Jon.
     
  19. SammyKhalifa

    SammyKhalifa Deity

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    Haha, good thing no other forums I know do that.

    :lol:
     
  20. Venereus

    Venereus This Is Streamlined!

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    Wtf????
     
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