Jon Shafer joins Stardock to work on elemental

[Eskel]

Jacyp: I fully agree with your oppinon.
I think that Jon Shafer is smart kid with arrogance typical for young people, who had a vision and certain goal to achieve. However, he hadnt enough experience to judge from the beginning what impact on the game will have ideas that fuelled him. Thats why he screwed Civ 5, in my opinion of course.
I guess - as I am not expert - that he is a great coder, mediocre designer and not so good team manager, but we still may see some great works of him in future.
Thats why we shouldnt bash the man. Good luck for him then.

 

[Luckystrike77]

I wish him luck. But I'm not sure he's the guy I'd hire since I think most of the design decisions in Civ V were wrong-headed. Some of the interface stuff (Strategic View!) is brilliant but a lot of the actual game changes like pop=science=trade, reduced yields, maritime states, etc are not something which demonstrates a really firm grasp of what makes a fun, balanced, challenging game.

He couldn't make Elemental any worse at least. I've got the $$$ collector's edition and I played it like three times right after it came out. Maybe in a year it will be patched enough I can go back.

I think Shafer was a genious in most of the design decissions in Civ V, must say I love the guy. To me he is the new Sid. Bugs, too hurried beta testing for some balancing issues, poor AI and terrible multiplayer stability is the issues with Civ 5, not the brilliant new ideas of gameplay.

PS to the poster: Get back to Civ 5 now after the newest patch and play multiplayer. Single player is no fun in Civ4 either....

Great news. Stardock will have a superteam now. I have great respect for the Frog, Shafer and Kael as game makers/designers of turn based strategy. This is world class league. Oh holy cow, these three guys developing Galactic Civilizations 3 together would be dynamite!
__________________

 

[Sox]

Quote by Jon on the Elemental forums:



Look at the bolded part, he's joking about completely dumbing down Elemental. I don't really think that's funny, and it's pretty unprofessional, considering some people's opinions of what he did to Civ V.

Well I think CiV is crap but I got to say i laught, oh how i laught! My opinion of him just went up a great bit. I think he will fit in with great at Stardock.

Now back to good old EU3.

 

[Luckystrike77]

Quote by Jon on the Elemental forums:



Look at the bolded part, he's joking about completely dumbing down Elemental. I don't really think that's funny, and it's pretty unprofessional, considering some people's opinions of what he did to Civ V.

What? He is just joking about the critisism he has got from the Civ 5 bashers on these forums. He is not admitting Civ 5 is dumbed down at all. Don't read to much between the lines lad.

 

[sketch162000]

Did nobody but me read the below post from Jon as a great big middle finger to Civ V and Firaxis or did I miss some posts? Reading between the lines, Firaxis tied Jon's hands behind his back and he's being sarcastic about doing the same to Elemental as he had to do to Civilization.

"...I'm thinking we'll trim the interface down to one big button in the middle of the screen, 1024 pixels wide by 768 pixels tall (approximately - will vary based on the resolution of the user’s monitor). The text on this button will say "Win the Game." I've had some discussions with Brad and the marketing team about this, and everyone is really excited by the possibilities. We've seen it work well in products from other publishers, and I really feel that this new direction will result in Stardock's games appealing to a much larger audience. We'll do some focus testing and see how things go. If people are still having some trouble grasping the gameplay concepts we may have to simplify things a bit more. I'll keep you guys posted!"

Maybe it's just me...

I noticed this as well. First I was like but then I was all because this could mean that, if he isn't just trying to cover his behind, what happened with Civ V was the result of 2K and/or Firaxis company decisions, and NOT Jon's fault. If that's the case, (possibly the reason that Shafer left in the first place) then Civilization might never go back to the kind of series that we all came to love.

 

[Oerdin]

Jon talks about "streamlining"

God damn it!

 

[Celevin]

I'm finding it fascinating how much the upper bodies are talking on the Stardock forums. For Civ5, we have to go through HR. I like 2kGreg a lot, but sometimes you want to hear stuff right from the designer's mouth. What would the opinion of Shafer be if he constantly talked with fans on the official forum, or this one? Would we chase him away or look at him in a better light? Why didn't he, was it his decision or did corporate tell him not to?

 

[Androrc the Orc]

What? He is just joking about the critisism he has got from the Civ 5 bashers on these forums. He is not admitting Civ 5 is dumbed down at all. Don't read to much between the lines lad.

It was in bad taste, specially since there are reasonable fears he will do just that with Elemental.

 

[Luckystrike77]

I noticed this as well. First I was like but then I was all because this could mean that, if he isn't just trying to cover his behind, what happened with Civ V was the result of 2K and/or Firaxis company decisions, and NOT Jon's fault. If that's the case, (possibly the reason that Shafer left in the first place) then Civilization might never go back to the kind of series that we all came to love.

You might have a point. I've been thinking that the decission of implementing game breaking features like El Dorado and the Fountain of Youth in the patch was what made Shafer say enough is enough, this is pure craziness!!!! (By the way the only thing I hated about the patch, together with the bug it created on roads to city states).

 

[Thimble]

Let's not forget that Jon Shafer is a VERY young guy.

According to his linkedin profile, he graduated in 2002, which puts him around 25~26.

You've also got to give him credit for Civ IV - he obviously played an integral role in it's development.

IMHO, Civ V was probably just a bad project. On one hand, there was probably a camp that insisted on 1UPT and on the other, you probably had a camp that pushed to sell as many games as possible, as soon as possible. I'm going to guess that Shafer was a part of the first camp and it collided badly with the second. Who knows.

In any case, he is now a veteran programmer of FIVE years in the trenches. He will be quite a different game designer than the one he was when he started work on Civ V. There is a very strong possibility that he will produce superior work on extending Elemental.

As a programmer, I know that I am light years beyond where I was five years ago. The amount that you learn in a challenging environment is exponential.

Jon Shafer going to Elemental has convinced me to buy Elemental. It shows that Stardock is interested in pushing the game forward. Not many game companies hire the #1 talent from a competitor to support a game that's already been released.

 

[Venereus]

I'm finding it fascinating how much the upper bodies are talking on the Stardock forums. For Civ5, we have to go through HR. I like 2kGreg a lot, but sometimes you want to hear stuff right from the designer's mouth. What would the opinion of Shafer be if he constantly talked with fans on the official forum, or this one? Would we chase him away or look at him in a better light? Why didn't he, was it his decision or did corporate tell him not to?

Displaying or not displaying that kind of behavior is usually a corporate decision. In general, we don't see many Firaxis staff in this forum. On the Stardock forum, apparently they post often, from all levels. So, same guy doesn't post while in one company, then goes to a company were it's commonplace to post, and now does aswell. Yeah, looks like top-down orders to me.

 

[bryanw1995]

I wish him luck. But I'm not sure he's the guy I'd hire since I think most of the design decisions in Civ V were wrong-headed. Some of the interface stuff (Strategic View!) is brilliant but a lot of the actual game changes like pop=science=trade, reduced yields, maritime states, etc are not something which demonstrates a really firm grasp of what makes a fun, balanced, challenging game.

He couldn't make Elemental any worse at least. I've got the $$$ collector's edition and I played it like three times right after it came out. Maybe in a year it will be patched enough I can go back.

With kael and shafer together they've at least shown that they're very serious about making elemental work.

Isn't it funny that all of firaxis' leads get out of town as quickly as they can?

 

[SuperJay]

Displaying or not displaying that kind of behavior is usually a corporate decision. In general, we don't see many Firaxis staff in this forum. On the Stardock forum, apparently they post often, from all levels. So, same guy doesn't post while in one company, then goes to a company were it's commonplace to post, and now does aswell. Yeah, looks like top-down orders to me.

Yep. It looks like 2K Firaxis don't allow or encourage their development or design staff to talk to their customers, preferring instead to channel all such communication through community relations reps (like 2K Greg and 2K Elizabeth). That's not an inherently bad policy, but it certainly doesn't encourage the same degree of trust that can come with direct interaction. But my company is the same way - the work I do is very connected to our users, but I'm not allowed to talk to them directly, even via our own forum on our website. I can go through User Services (Support or Custom Svc) in a pinch, but that's about it. So for all we know, Jon and others at Firaix may have wanted to communicate with us directly, but may be prevented from doing so by 2K's corporate policies.

 

[col]

Jon Shafer going to Elemental has convinced me to buy Elemental. It shows that Stardock is interested in pushing the game forward. Not many game companies hire the #1 talent from a competitor to support a game that's already been released.

Me too - and I'm really looking forward to GC3

 

[Androrc the Orc]

Indeed SuperJay, it seems like that, and it is a pity. One of the things I like the most about Paradox is the direct contact with the customers.

 

[Androrc the Orc]

Let's not forget that Jon Shafer is a VERY young guy.

According to his linkedin profile, he graduated in 2002, which puts him around 25~26.

You've also got to give him credit for Civ IV - he obviously played an integral role in it's development.

IMHO, Civ V was probably just a bad project. On one hand, there was probably a camp that insisted on 1UPT and on the other, you probably had a camp that pushed to sell as many games as possible, as soon as possible. I'm going to guess that Shafer was a part of the first camp and it collided badly with the second. Who knows.

In any case, he is now a veteran programmer of FIVE years in the trenches. He will be quite a different game designer than the one he was when he started work on Civ V. There is a very strong possibility that he will produce superior work on extending Elemental.

As a programmer, I know that I am light years beyond where I was five years ago. The amount that you learn in a challenging environment is exponential.

Jon Shafer going to Elemental has convinced me to buy Elemental. It shows that Stardock is interested in pushing the game forward. Not many game companies hire the #1 talent from a competitor to support a game that's already been released.

That's an inspiring post. I hope your expectations turn out to be right.

 

[cf_nz]

Okay, I gotta give Shafer some credit... that post was hilarious. A giant "Win the Game button?" A sly reference to his own work streamlining Civ 5, perhaps? I kind of hope his reference to "games by other publishers" is exactly that. Hard to say, but I laughed.

Perhaps more a reference to the 'internet narrative' of Civ V. Certainly very funny though.

 

[arstal]

I think Shafer was a genious in most of the design decissions in Civ V, must say I love the guy. To me he is the new Sid. Bugs, too hurried beta testing for some balancing issues, poor AI and terrible multiplayer stability is the issues with Civ 5, not the brilliant new ideas of gameplay.

PS to the poster: Get back to Civ 5 now after the newest patch and play multiplayer. Single player is no fun in Civ4 either....

Great news. Stardock will have a superteam now. I have great respect for the Frog, Shafer and Kael as game makers/designers of turn based strategy. This is world class league. Oh holy cow, these three guys developing Galactic Civilizations 3 together would be dynamite!
__________________

Really, I think the three of them each cover their weaknesses quite well.

Brad's a great AI coder, but gets stubborn sometimes, and sometimes his ideas lack a little.

Kael brings the soul in spades and is a good team manager , but isn't good with AI

Jon is good at filling in the other stuff, and has talent with modding.

I have high, high hopes for GalCiv 3- it will use the Elemental Engine, by the point they begin work SD should have the rest of the kinks out, and Space 4X games are easier to design well then fantasy TBS games.

I'm finding it fascinating how much the upper bodies are talking on the Stardock forums. For Civ5, we have to go through HR. I like 2kGreg a lot, but sometimes you want to hear stuff right from the designer's mouth. What would the opinion of Shafer be if he constantly talked with fans on the official forum, or this one? Would we chase him away or look at him in a better light? Why didn't he, was it his decision or did corporate tell him not to?

This is another aspect of how 2k is ruining/ruined Firaxis in my eyes. Big studios can ruin good developers with the pressures of making money in the short-term over the long-term. SD, like Valve is easier to take a long-term approach due to Brad's self-funding.

 

[Anthropoid]

http://forums.elementalgame.com/403503/page/1/#2860255

This quote of "Jon's" says it all. 2K is the one to blame; makes sense. Blame it on "the corporation."

 

[SuperJay]

Perhaps more a reference to the 'internet narrative' of Civ V. Certainly very funny though.

Yeah, it could definitely be one or the other. I like the ambiguity, actually. Either way, I think it's pretty hilarious coming from Jon - it shows he can have a sense of humor about either the end result of Civ 5 or the way he's been villified for his role in it, both of which are probably necessary for his own sanity.