Jon Shafer joins Stardock to work on elemental

[The_J]

Jon talks about "streamlining"

I'm curious if Jon has read one of the threads here...that statement really reminds me somehow of this here:

People that think Civ 6 looks like it's been dumbed down simply don't have the intellect to appreciate its depth. They see this big END TURN button and start crying "Oh, boo-hoo, where did my cities go. where are my tile usage choices!"

Whatever.

For those that appreciate subtle complexity - I looked under the hood, and guess what... There are 48 horizontal by 12 vertical clickable quadrants on that Next Turn button. That's 576 different places to click next turn!

All the haters are probably just blindly clicking without thinking about which quadrant of the End Turn button they are clicking... and that works now because the AI needs improvement. Once the AI is improved and it starts to matter which of those 576 quadrants you click, then you'll all see -- Civ 6 is hands down the best edition of Civilization EVAH!

I completely trust that lead developer Ryan Seacrest will get this right because Take2 BELIEVES in Civ 6.

Plus, did you know it's completely moddable?

Zap, Kael, and Afforess are already talking about mods --- I understand Zap sees exciting possibilities for making the END TURN button into an octagon rather than a rectangle. Afforess is working on expanding the dimensions of END TURN way out to 96 X 24 -- that will be more than 2300 clickable quadrants, people! Kael thinks END TURN could be made into NEXT TURN -- how's that for being highly moddable? ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?!?!

All the haters and old people should just go back to their old civs... all the boring micromanagement of "units", and "tiles", and "cities", and "stuff to do" are stuck in the past.

BTW - the best part of Civ 6? I hear it runs on Sid Meier's tears...

 

[Anthropoid]

I'm curious if Jon has read one of the threads here...that statement really reminds me somehow of this here:. . .
. . . All the haters and old people should just go back to their old civs... all the boring micromanagement of "units", and "tiles", and "cities", and "stuff to do" are stuck in the past . . .

Old gamers never die; they just go to Matrix forums to post.

 

[bryanw1995]

I am NOT happy. Stardock is my "last bastion" after what happened with the latest civ iteration. Does this mean that we Stardockers will have to endure another "renewed vission" from this person, as we civvers had to?

Not happy. Not happy at all. Count me among the ones that see Shafer as the responsible for the weakest civ ever. I don't want to see that happen to GalCiv, or the new Elemental for that matter... now that they finally have something playable, fun and engaging after patch 1.1.

NOT happy.

that's funny, from what I hear elemental has been had a very poor reception thus far. are you worried that he will "break" it more?

 

[SuperJay]

that's funny, from what I hear elemental has been had a very poor reception thus far. are you worried that he will "break" it more?

You're hearing about a game via the Internet; he's actually playing that game and enjoys it. Whether you think he should enjoy it or not or be concerned or not is probably irrelevent to him.

 

[bryanw1995]

So you haven't played BtS ^^?


Let's see what will happen with elemental. Hoping for the fans that it will be a good change.

yes, it's easy to forget that jon was co-lead on bts, which seems to be the most likely vote getter in "best civ mod/expansion ever" category.

 

[Oerdin]

Jon talks about "streamlining"

I think we can basically take a pass on any Stardock projects which he has any controlling authority on. Sure, Shafer did a good job building an add on to a rock solid game (Civ4) but he completely screwed up Civ5 imho and now he's proving that he still doesn't get it because he's promising to do the exact same thing with Stardock products.

 

[Aristos]

that's funny, from what I hear elemental has been had a very poor reception thus far. are you worried that he will "break" it more?

no, I was one that was following the game because I own the entire Galactic Civilizations saga, which is very good. I knew of the disastrous launch of Elemental, but after they launched patch 1.1 the reports are being extremely good, and I decided to run away from the crap that Civ5 is to me, and buy Elemental... only to see who I think is the main responsible for Civ5 to join Elemental's team...

so no buy now. Wait and see. And hopefully he does not get to touch an eventual GalCiv3, or that franchise will also be ruined.

 

[bryanw1995]

You're hearing about a game via the Internet; he's actually playing that game and enjoys it. Whether you think he should enjoy it or not or be concerned or not is probably irrelevent to him.

that's funny, I enjoy playing ciV but have to hear some people constantly bash it here in the forums. looks like it's time for some payback

here's to the forthcoming expansion pack: elemental: panzer general.

 

[Thormodr]

I think we can basically take a pass on any Stardock projects which he has any controlling authority on. Sure, Shafer did a good job building an add on to a rock solid game (Civ4) but he completely screwed up Civ5 imho and now he's proving that he still doesn't get it because he's promising to do the exact same thing with Stardock products.

Jon Shafer won't ruin Elemental. He will work on the modding capabilities. He won't have much creative imput. Rather, he'll allow others to express their creative imput better.

I think in the right environment, Jon Shafer will thrive. In my opinion, Stardock is the right environment.

I am willing to give Jon Shafer another chance. Stardock doesn't have any investors and suits breathing down their necks.

As for his post about streamlining: www.itwasajoke.com

 

[Jesus is Lord33]

Going for the falsely so-called "1upt" required low production, by that only a handful of buildings, by that limiting the choices for builder-type gamers.
It had obviously consequences regarding the way the cultural expansion works, which avoids production related hexes as long as ever possible.
It had obviously consequences regarding the way in which tile improvements work.
And so on, and so on.

Can you rephrase this argument? I'm not sure I understand.

My quick rebuttle is that monetary limitations on buildings and not the new 1UPT combat system was the cause for a different empire-building game. The combat system and the building system remain mutually exclusive.

There is no difference between Civilization 4's combat gameplay mechanics and Civilization 5's 1UPT other than the amount of troops you can fit on one tile.

Poll #1

In the first poll, 64% of voters actually have voted for NOT-1upt.

80.159% "actually voted" for limitations on tiles.

62.33% "actually voted" for NOT-1UPT.

You cannot argue this poll either way. If you're argument holds true that the amount of units on one tile is a fundamental error in the gameplay of CiV, then how different would it be had they just proposed a limit of 8-10 units on one tile.

If my argument holds true that the amount of units on one tile has nothing to do with the failure of CiV, then how different would it be had they allowed a couple more troops per tile.

This poll is a moot argument.


Poll #2

Now, we have around 1000 voters and 76% are in favour of 1UPT.

790 people voted yes, period. 76% would win a presidental re-election.

if you read what people have written, you will see that quite some of the "yes" voters actually are advocating something which clearly is not "1upt". There are all kinds of suggestions for stacking: stacking of workers, stacking of ranged and melee type units, limited stackind and whatnotever.

If you want a recount, go recount it.

Come back to me in a month with all their "true answers" catergorized into meaningful statistics. Until then, you cannot call this evidence. It's called confirmation bias.

You see what you want to see.

So, having had a short look at your "evidence", it doesn't look so strong anymore.

Actually, it is "evidence"; without the quotation marks. Thanks.



Finally, I would suggest that we conduct a new poll on whether people like 1UPT or SOD. If I win, then my argument is validated. I believed and still believe that the majority of players like 1UPT.

lschnarch's strongest argument was that the poll was conducted shortly after release of the game.


I can only hope my arguments were clear and concise enough for you to understand my points. No debate will ever be fair on the internet without a third-party judge.

GG


EDIT:

Read this!

http://www.garath.net/Sullla/Civ5/whatwentwrong.html

 

[Jesus is Lord33]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=405888

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=389254


polls for quick reference

 

[bryanw1995]

Yep. That is Brad Wardell. Nice to see the CEO actively engaging with the fans in the forums (as Kael does there too, and presumably Jon will do).

yeah, I saw another thread that jon posted in. they actually pay attention to their fanbase over there it seems, something that generally seems to be lacking at firaxis.

 

[Androrc the Orc]

yeah, I saw another thread that jon posted in. they actually pay attention to their fanbase over there it seems, something that generally seems to be lacking at firaxis.

Sid's comments about players are even more worrying, as he portrays them in completely stereotyped version.

 

[SuperJay]

that's funny, I enjoy playing ciV but have to hear some people constantly bash it here in the forums.

No, you don't have to. You choose to. And then apparently you choose to blame other people for your own decisions.

I'm not sure how that was related to my point about your lack of direct experience with Elemental versus Ricardo actually playing and enjoying the game, either, but it's not important.

As others have pointed out, I think Jon will do well at Stardock because his role is more specialized. But then, I'm one of that rare breed who dislikes Civ 5 in its current state but doesn't want to burn Jon at the stake.

 

[Biz_]

new interview

 

[SuperJay]

new interview

Yeesh. Jon definitely has one necessary skill for this business: talking a whole lot without saying anything at all.

 

[Gre_Magus]

Whatever people might think about Civ 5 and Shafer specifically, this news does seem to indicate that Stardock has got some money and is trying to position itself as a big player in the strategy game market. They've got a good chance. I loved Gal Civ 2, although I haven't bought Elemental yet. First of all, I thought the fantasy setting seemed a bit generic and not very compelling. Second, I think they tried to put too much into the game. You've got to admire Stardock for not saying "no" to all their neat ideas and features, but you also can't build a game by just piling tons and tons of systems on top of each other and not expect it to be pretty much broken at launch. But I think Stardock is right on track with all of their unit and building crafting stuff - GalCiv2 was a little like Spore in that regard, but the actual game was also fun to play.

 

[bryanw1995]

1. Main Cause of Almost Any Problem W/in Civ5

Combat is mutually exclusive from most every other aspect of Civilization. You go on to redeem yourself later in your post.

2. by many

I'm not one of those players who regard 1upt as a gamebreaking feature. I've yet to see any proof to support the claim that many [majority] regard 1UPT [badly].

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=405888

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=389254



I've got evidence, I'm afraid you do not.

yeah, but he shouts about louder and more often so he must be right! /sarcasm

 

[Luckystrike77]

One unit per tile, and finally bombardment back from Civ 3 (and now even more well designed to the game because of 1upt) is the best that has ever happened to the combat aspect of the series. And that's final, end of discussion!!!!!

 

[Luckystrike77]

Whatever people might think about Civ 5 and Shafer specifically, this news does seem to indicate that Stardock has got some money and is trying to position itself as a big player in the strategy game market. They've got a good chance.

I hope you are right, and that we will see new Stardock 4x tbs'games coming out more and more frequently in the years ahead of us. A Civilization-like game from Stardock (not in space) would for instance be very interesting. None has challenged the franchise since Call to Power.