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Jotnar - Giant Civ for Fall from Heaven. Download Here.

Discussion in 'Fall Further' started by Arctic Circle, Jun 14, 2008.

  1. Ingvar

    Ingvar Chieftain

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    The Father = Egrass the Founder - kind of associated him with the Father of all Giants (Ymir and that whole bit).

    Wild Troll - was scary a bit, I try not to save/reload too much, but seemed like a lot of risk in the very beginning. But it does make sense lore-wise.

    Research - slow in the beginning - really made a lot of use of getting techs from Graveyards and villages - touch and go, most games end that way from a monster. Once I had three staedings it was comparable to other civs I played before. A lot difference made with City of the Thousand Slums - really liked it. Maybe make the capital normal cross, and the rest thin cross to adjust for early game growth.

    Production - pretty fast. Units take a while to build - but they are worth it.

    Hidden Nationality - yes, one could just click it off - but then it won't come back :) I see it more of a flavor wise suggustion - young Giants running off without listening to their elders - attacking left and right, they gain experience, but can get into trouble. It would be nice though to do it by choice - so you can choose how you raise "your young".
     
  2. Psychic_Llamas

    Psychic_Llamas Wizard in the Making

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    are there any screenshots of this?
     
  3. Arctic Circle

    Arctic Circle Prince

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    The Father is quite different from Egrass, and well.

    Egrass the Founder - One of the first Jotnar to truly build them as a civilization, builder of the first staedding.

    The Father - The first Giant, father of all Giant Kin. (Ymir) He might show up as an late Armageddon event if I have the time, and feel like implementing it. Like 'Father Time' whom blows the horn at the end of days. Giving the giants an edge in real late gameplay, since they will be lacking those 30-40 sized cities..

    Father XXXX - A giant leader, whom gets the honorific 'Father', the same way that the current Jotnar leader is 'Mother Enningas'. She is not the first female giant.
     
  4. Arctic Circle

    Arctic Circle Prince

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    You can find several in this thread:
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=275026

    And I can make sure to make some when I test things, perhaps Ingvar can take a few screenshots of his current game?
     
  5. Arctic Circle

    Arctic Circle Prince

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    I have noticed the 'Staedding' that exists on the map with Fall Further :)

    Wonder if I can rip of that graphic and put into towns, or are the staedding building good enough?
     
  6. Arctic Circle

    Arctic Circle Prince

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  7. Ingvar

    Ingvar Chieftain

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    For city sets, maybe you can adopt the fort graphics - growing into citadel graphic of Giant Staedding after a certain number of population? Would fit with the flavor of them. Right now they do look a bit funny with Giant Wielder of Arms standing on almost an empty space.
     
  8. Ingvar

    Ingvar Chieftain

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    How about this for the pedia entry for Jotnar:

    Jotnar Civilization

    In the Age of Dragons gods have forged themselves weapons from flesh and elements around them. Giants were second only to the Dragons then, but times have changed and forgotten by gods they took to wandering Erebus, ferocious and solitary threats to lone bands of travelers. Hunted by Patrians they have retreated to the farthest reaches of the world. When the Age of Ice came, some of their kin were used again - the fabled Frost Giants roaming the frozen world inspiring terror in the hearts of hardy man, the others survived the Winter well - with thick skin and fully adapted to the wilderness they fared better then humans. When the spring came again, most giants kept on their feral lives, but there was one among them, who scried the future of his race. He saw them hunted down again by humans, elves, and dwarves - growing in numbers those races would take more space in the thawed world and eventually would be able to overtake even a might roaming giant in his hills. He then set out to build the first Staedding of Jotnar - to raise his younglings in peace, to study arts and crafts and to build a society that could withstand the tides of the new age. From that day forth he was called Egrass the Founder.
     
  9. Ingvar

    Ingvar Chieftain

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    Feel free to use any text in Pedia entries and use any of the ideas here:

    Spoiler :

    Giant Units

    It would be really interesting to see giants grow, rather than being built, I think the possibility for it exists within the game mechanic. They would make a builders civ - small cities, growing units, building buildings and research. Birth can be emulated with conditional spawning - I'll try to look through XML/python and see how it is done for other civs. Growth can be emulated with XP growth (like workers in FF), so that Younglings are really slow work-rate workers, but once upgraded they change unit class and evolve according to different rules later.

    Instead of saying spawn - you could say "Rejoice! The news of a youngling born in <staedding> has reached us."

    Egrass the Founder - the giant protector and worker, while the Homestaed is being built and offspring are growing, he works tirelessly to improve the lot of his kin.

    Hearthmother (2/4/4 - visibility range) - it was the women of Jotnar that took to Egrass's ideas best, who raised the new generation of Giants with need to build, explore and learn. While Giant men built and warred their women ran their staeddings, and soon no decision of importance was taken without Hearthmother's consent. (The unit could have improved vision - all starting with a first settler bonus - to show their ability to scry the futures)

    Youngling (1/3/1 - sentry) - the children of the giants are rare, but only the most remote staeddings in harshest lands hear not the Youngling's voices. Not built but spawned by the "Jotnar Staedding" building if the staedding has a grown Giant in it for more then 20 turns. They are spawned with a single random promotion to show what their inclinations are (Hero, Arcane, Mobility, Forest, Hills, Combat I, Marksmen, etc) The more specialized ones should be pretty rare. Younglings should really stay with their staedding until they have grown. That can be achieved with a removable Heavy promotion. They can age with XP - as soon as they are 10 or 17 xp level they can be upgraded based on the techs and buildings available. The options would be Skald, Hill Dweller, Worker, and Hearthmother.

    Hill Dweller (7/7/1 - sentry) (axeman replacement) - the civilized counterpart of their wild kin Hill Giants, these are the people of Jotnar, protectors of staeddings and fathers of younglings. They are prone however to the call of the wild. When the freedom of the hills calls them with the ancient fury of gods battlefields they gain a a crazed and hidden nationality promotions. (Can be achieved through a spell, or maybe just a random possibility like werewolves and lunatics).

    Jotnar Worker (2/4/2) - while most giants choose to leave their home staedding to build their own, some choose to remain with their family and become workers, they build routes between staeddings and create improvements - highly praised and respected they follow in Egrass's footsteps.

    Skald (6/6/3 - sentry, channeling two, medic, channelling I, (nature I, earth I, fire one, mind I - something to reflect the basics) - both men and women of Giant kin are skilled in the arts, Skalds are shamans, poets and healers - they travel from staedding to staedding learning the lore in their travels, providing vital news to their kin and are welcomed by all for their many stories. They learn slower then their human counterparts, but can gain experience in combat. The graphic probably should be gender unspecific - like a enlarged Mage - covered in cloak - maybe other mods have something like that - I'll look.

    Wielder of Arms (11/11/1 - sentry) - These formidable opponents are giants that were forged in the new times of war, they are provided with armor and mace and protect the border towns and wage war for Jotnar. Any Hill Dweller can answer the call and become the Wielder of Arms. (Perhaps they should be unbuildable - but upgraded from level 3 Hill Dweller, or upgraded from Hill Dweller with a building present (Armory or something like that).

    Vala (5/10/1 - sentry, channeling III, enchantment 1, law 2 - upgraded from level 6 Skald) - Vala are the wisest women of Jotnar, they scry the fates of their people and decide when they go to war or settle in peace, they practice magic lore and while their weapons are wands and not spears - they are formidable defenders. They can also call the Jotnar man to battle - inspiring valor and loyalty and enchanting their weapons.

    Woodfather (10/10/2) - The Jotnar druid.

    Titan - giants do not grow much in human eyes - big is big, but when centuries pass, the wisest and strongest become immortal Titans, those who hold the world on their shoulders.

    The Kin Units
    The Kin Units would be all the other creatures and giant related units - rather then being built, I think they can be gained like Sheaim or Kahdi mechanic. You have to have "Kin Fire" building in the staedding and then replace buildings that usually give those units to other civs with flavored ones. For example Wild Trolls just need Kin Fire to spawn, Hunting Lodge and Kin Fire let you get Hunter Troll and upgrade your Wild Trolls to Hunter Trolls, Kin Fire & Lighthouse would give you Sea Serpents & Turtles, Kin Fire and Harbor - Triton, Cyclops - Kin Fire and Grove - making rangers appear later in game - or maybe there's a way to associate spawn with technology.

    Instead of saying spawned you could say: "A <unit> has been attracted to the Kin Fire in <staedding>."

    Wild Troll (4/3/2 - crazed, hidden nationality)
    Hunter Troll
    Troll Elder (cannot be spawned needs to be upgraded from lvl 6 Hunter Troll)
    Cyclops
    Sea Serpent
    Sea Turtle
    Triton

    Not quite sure :) :
    Jotnar Berserker, T4 units in general. Seems like their T3 units are pretty powerful, and if you give them ability to get random promo at birth including a rare hero - they might be up to task to fight with human opponents without excessive T4 ranks, or you could get them through the Kin mechanic.

    Would be cool to see "Drakes" as air unit for giants. Their castles are big, Jotnar are big - Drakes are like hawks to them. And my desire to have flying lizards of some sort would be satisfied :D Maybe along the lines of Rock Ravens of Chislev, but with ability to walk 1, like a 5/5/1 flying, and fireball tossing miniature dragon.

    Race - maybe add race "Giant" - and give it to Giant Jotnar units. It might be possible to pass on the race promotion with upgrade - make Hill Giants upgradable to Hill Dwellers. That would allow them to be fortified, since beasts cannot be fortified. Also might make it easier to work with unique spells and events.

    Unique Spells

    Staedding Call - a domination type spell - 25% chance of converting a Hill Giant. Should be available to Egrass, Vala, Woodfather and maybe Hearthmother. The learned and strong Jotnar can seek out on their own risk their wild counterparts and get them to join the civilization. It would make a lot of fun and a game of chance if Hearthmother goes on her own to found a steading and can get herself a man by calling to him.

    Game Mechanics
    Mainly I thought that conversion between Hill Dwellers and Hill Giants can be more pronounced. Captured Hill Giants can stay as they are, or be upgraded to Hill Dwellers. When they are Hill Giants they are savage beasts and can attack anyone, and possibly be crazed with a chance to turn wild. When they are Hill Dwellers they lose hidden nationality and gain Giant race, but have a chance to become Hill Giants with all the effects of it - HN & Crazed. Shouldn't be too high of a chance of it happening - maybe 5% chance each turn for Hill Dweller to become Hill Giant.

    Armageddon Hero - I really like the idea of waking up Ymir when the counter is high up - say if it's over 70, Jotnar can build a really costly huge giant to protect them.
     
  10. Arctic Circle

    Arctic Circle Prince

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    A lot of great stuff. I do agree with you on the 'growing' and 'spawning of kin units'. I like it. I do not agree on quite a few things about the units, but all good ideas.

    However, before becoming even more fancy I want a stable version that can be implemented into Fall Further. Just working out the most obvious flaws will take the next three weeks, because as mentioned - this isn't exactly my highest priority right now.

    I do see a future where we have some form of 'growing giants'. Where some kind of spawning effect, and perhaps even recourse's can be tied into Sea Serpents and Giant Tortoises.

    I really like a spell that converts barbarian Hill Giants. And perhaps also Wild Trolls that gone 'native'.
     
  11. Ingvar

    Ingvar Chieftain

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    I was reading through the Modders FAQ in the main thread - and I think I came up with a way of how to create Younglings!

    Spoiler :

    Please pardon, as I use the names and titles that are not in the mod, just easier for imagination to flow - no insistence on use meant.

    So. Jotnar men - Hill Dwellers, Wielders of Arms, etc would have a unique spell - "Raise Young", the spell would function the same way "Hope" and "Inspiration" work - they create a temporary building in the city. The building - let's call it "Jotnar Crib" will then function like the Planar Gate - it would have a low chance of spawning a Youngling/Offspring.



    I haven't done any XML or python code - but this is so interesting at this point that I think I'll dabble in it and see if I can make this work. Then if you're interested you could add it to the mod. I'll leave it up to you :)
     
  12. Arctic Circle

    Arctic Circle Prince

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    I have PM'd you. ;)

    And. Hill Giants will keep being called Hill Giants and being virtually identical to the normal Hill Giants. This is a real finesse for Jotnar players in multiplayer games. The same as with Sea Serpent or Giant Tortoise. You can move units or keep an eye on the opponent without him/her being able to be sure 'if' its an barbarian or one of your units.

    Sea Serpents and Giant Tortoises can be spawned from a 'spawning pool'. And while I don't like Drakes, one can think about an building called 'Eagles nest' that spawn giant eagles. There are some giant eagle unit with a rider in some other mod.

    As I mentioned, the growing part is very appealing. Kind of like the Adept line, you can't build some units, not based on level - but if you have the technology and buildings the existing units will eventually upgrade into a higher-tier version. This fits with the 'Spirit Guide' and the Jotnar concept. It would require some heavy-duty python, and I do not have the time to get into that in the near future.
     
  13. Ingvar

    Ingvar Chieftain

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    You could add that to CivilizationInfos to block those other guys.

    Code:
    <!-- Units that should not be buildable by Jotnar -->
                    <Unit>
                        <UnitClassType>UNITCLASS_PROFESSOR</UnitClassType>
                        <UnitType>NONE</UnitType>
                    </Unit>
                    <Unit>
    <UnitClassType>UNITCLASS_DRAGON_GUARDIAN</UnitClassType>
                        <UnitType>NONE</UnitType>
                    </Unit> 
                    <Unit>
                        <UnitClassType>UNITCLASS_COATLANN</UnitClassType>
                        <UnitType>NONE</UnitType>
                    </Unit> 
                    <Unit>
                        <UnitClassType>UNITCLASS_MIQUIZTLI</UnitClassType>
                        <UnitType>NONE</UnitType>
                    </Unit>            
                    <Unit>
                        <UnitClassType>UNITCLASS_LUCIAN</UnitClassType>
                        <UnitType>NONE</UnitType>
                    </Unit>
                    <Unit>
                        <UnitClassType>UNITCLASS_KARRLSON</UnitClassType>
                        <UnitType>NONE</UnitType>
                    </Unit>
                    <Unit>
                        <UnitClassType>UNITCLASS_MESKWAKI</UnitClassType>
                        <UnitType>NONE</UnitType>
                    </Unit>
    <!-- End units not buildable add -->
    
     
  14. Arctic Circle

    Arctic Circle Prince

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  15. Raize

    Raize Warlord

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    There aren't any installation instructions. I couldn't figure out the directory structure to install it.
     
  16. DuckAndCower

    DuckAndCower Warlord

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    Arctic, why do you have people make manual edits to the python? It seems like it's a huge barrier that will scare away the vast majority of potential players.
     
  17. Ingvar

    Ingvar Chieftain

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    You will need to add it to (FFH2MainMod Folder)\Assets\Modules\ folder
    You will also need to edit the file Arctic Circle describes in (FFH2MainMod Folder)\python\, where (FFH2MainMod Folder) is whatever the folder you've installed main Fall From Heaven 2 mod.
     
  18. Ingvar

    Ingvar Chieftain

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    I think it's mainly because the modmod is in alpha stage :) It's worth the trouble though, at least it was for me.
     
  19. Arctic Circle

    Arctic Circle Prince

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    As Ingvar put it, it because it is only alpha.

    I will not get into the technicals, but I wanted it to be a modular mod for alpha and beta. It actually makes it easy to install/uninstall. Just one folder to copy/paste. (How to install a modular mod have detailed instructions in the modular mod thread, to which I have provided a link). FOR NOW.

    I 100% garantee that version 1.0 that will come out in gods good time will be absurdly easy to install. Hopefully it will even be included in Fall Further.

    Everyone that tries out Jotnar is a joy and a blessing. And I will make sure to have a better installation description for the Beta version, and an incredible easy install for v1.0. Please look at the beginning of the thread, where there are three posts 'Alpha', 'Beta' and '1.0'. This is how I handle software development.

    Thank you :)
     
  20. Arctic Circle

    Arctic Circle Prince

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    Again, thank you for the feedback. I want everyone interested to be able to try to use it, if you have questions you do not feel like posing here - PM me. Any time, any how, any thing.

    Pictures also added on first post.
     

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