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Jotnar - Giant Civ for Fall from Heaven. Download Here.

Discussion in 'Fall Further' started by Arctic Circle, Jun 14, 2008.

  1. Arctic Circle

    Arctic Circle Prince

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    Both the telepathic lama and Slynn fellow have expressed an intrest in doing some artwork.. ok .. ok .. I asked them ... ok .. OK .. I asked really much.. :)

    Anyhow, anyone interested in fiddling with graphics, or want to insert a totally new unit that fits within the Jotnar concept. Feel free to let me know. Both me and my wife will be busy with more code/balance stuff.

    Rewards:
    Fame in the form of credits and a Jotnar city named after you.. :king:
     
  2. Psychic_Llamas

    Psychic_Llamas Wizard in the Making

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    hehehe im going to start work on the Woodfather guy probably tomorrow
    ill post my progress here if your interested.
     
  3. Tarquelne

    Tarquelne Follower of Tytalus

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    Finally played a decently-long game. The bad news is I didn't get very far up the tech tree because I was locked in mortal combat with another civ until the elves got pissed and wiped us both out. The good news is that the other civ was the Scions - I was pleased they could actually hold their own. :)

    Anyway, I thought the civ worked well.

    The Militia strike me as too weak... except that the Founder is around. I had a lot of fun with the Wild Trolls and got some use out of H.N. for the Hill Giants.

    I liked the Founder a lot. I thought he balanced out the Militia and was nice for limited offensive operations, too. _Maybe_ too nice. I'd like to see him pick up a "terraforming" spell or two later in the game.

    I enjoyed not having adepts - I usually go for them quickly so it made a nice change of pace.

    I found myself wishing for troll slave workers, just for flavor. Might be more trouble than they're worth, but maybe troll workers with high work-rates that can just clear forest, mine, and build roads? And sometimes they turn barb. You have capture them to put them back to work. :)

    Re: Traditions: Rather than having it be a "must have" civic granting a huge #-of-cities maintenance break you might be able to get away with having the free building, or a common building, give a straight +1 or +2 (depending on the building) gold bonus. Saying it's taxes from the thralls might tie it to the background, but you'd know better than I.

    "Enchantment" doesn't strike me as appropriate as a starting mana. OTOH,
    1) I don't know much about the background.
    and
    2) I don't have anything else to suggest I think significantly better.
     
  4. Arctic Circle

    Arctic Circle Prince

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    Absolutly. Use this thread at will. :)
     
  5. Arctic Circle

    Arctic Circle Prince

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    Thank you for the feedback. :)

    NOTE to self, consider add Troll worker as per Tal's suggestion. But they wouldn't really 'enslave' trolls - they'd be rather nice about it.

    About Traditions. I kind of like it, and it was a real trick to accomplish. Right now I do not remember but there is more to Traditions then just the financial balance. It also reflects the inflexibility that comes with the Jotnar way of life.

    About the founder and attacking. He is a 2/5 with hero that can grow into a 4/7 after 70? turns. Even if you raise him pretty quickly, he is not much more an offensive force then say an Grigori hero. But I could set him to a 0/5 to begin with? But that make him weaker attacker then a normal Jotnar worker?

    Hmm. If I get a better suggestion on mana I'd absolutly take another. Perhaps Nature? Mind? Two Law mana.. ? :)

    Did anyone notice that Jotnar workers can (slightly) bombard cities?
     
  6. Tarquelne

    Tarquelne Follower of Tytalus

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    Maybe 1/5 rather than 2/5. That 1 point of strength would make a big dif. I don't think you should change anything yet, though. It was just one game... Well, actually two: I had a really short game in which I eliminated the Elohim and the Clan. Egrass was instrumental. Wild Trolls and Militia would soften up a city and Egrass would make the kills. But I also started in a superb spot and got very lucky with some huts, so I restarted... and I'm not sure I'd want to risk Egrass so much in most games.

    Nature could work well... Would "Earth" be trite for the Jotnar? (I really like Law and Spirit, btw.)

    Not me. Ah... just looked at them again: Didn't realize they were giants... but they are awfully tall for thralls. :)
     
  7. Tarquelne

    Tarquelne Follower of Tytalus

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    The 0 maintenance cost from a Staedding + HofAncestors + Courthouse seems, well, very low. :)

    I love the giant turtles as cargo carriers. I think it'd be neat to have them stay the main cargo-line: Sharply limit # holds on units like the Triton (you could make a Triton-only promotion giving holds only with some experience gain, I think), add turtle upgrades and (hopefully) get some turtle-with-sails graphics for advanced versions.

    How about "Subdue Animal" for Tritons? To tame wild turtles/sea serpents. (Also: Should Tritons be getting defensive benefits from terrain?)

    Just personal taste, but Jotnar sea units being so interesting, I think emphasizing Jotnar sea-power even more would be cool. Even to the point of making them into another sea-centric civ like the Lanun. Well, probably not as much as the Lanun, but I think FFH2's got room for two such civs. And maybe some background info. showing enmity between the Jotnar and the Overlords?
     
  8. Arctic Circle

    Arctic Circle Prince

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    Note to self: FIX this, look at the total maintnance decrease. Perhaps remove from HofAncestors. Error.


    Note to self. Increase giant turtle cargo limit to 4, remove cargo capacity on sea serpents.

    Wow.. yes absolutly.

    Note to self. Subdue animal and Subdue beasts for Tritons, give Tritons a promotion that yields +30 defence at sea and -50% defence on land of varios sorts. Perhaps even ban him from entering deserts.


    Hmm. Yes and no, I have been toying with the idea of giving Jotnar one UU hero boat. Like the stoneship from the Thomas Covenant books. Even giving the Triton a spell to plant resources like fish or crabs (for a high one-time cost) - it really makes sence. Also Sea Serpent and Triton should have some sort of 'submerged' ability that make them invisible and unable to attack, then they have to go back to the surface to fight again - making them visible.

    Note to self. Look over these things for version 1.1

    Thank you very much for your feedback. ;)
     
  9. Tarquelne

    Tarquelne Follower of Tytalus

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    I was going to take another look at cost and requirements but the Tritons did strike me as too handy - and fast! - on land. I like what you have above...

    ... and that.

    ... and that...

    and for that, though I feel like I'm reverting, I'll say that'd be so cool!

    Maybe with Marksman for the sea serpent, so it can rise unexpectedly amidst a convoy and, throwing it's coils over a (relatively) defenseless cargo ship, drag it to the bottom?

    I suggest lowering the movement of a submerged unit, and -1 for sea serpents in general. Mostly, I think, because I'm a sub warfare fan and want to try classic u-boat tactics. :) The serpent/turtle speeds do also strike me as high, but I think they make sense if you assume the "wild" versions tend to wander aimlessly and/or simply not exert themselves getting from point a to b.

    BTW: I discovered the "Mirror" spell makes a very handy template for units that transform from one state/form to another. You can pass all the promotions and experience back and forth but add or delete some at will, give/take access to spells, and even change the graphics. That might be handy for submersible units.

    Wild Trolls and Troll hunters:
    I don't think there's any problem with the current set-up, but I like the "wildness" of the Wild Trolls enough to suggest that Troll Hunters keep Enraged/Crazed, but make a promotion with Loyalty's effect available to them with sufficient experience. (Combat 2 or 3?) I can't remember exactly what the pre-req options are: It might require spells with unit reqs. Anyway, this would require and allow them to "earn" greater discipline.
     
  10. xienwolf

    xienwolf Deity

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  11. Arctic Circle

    Arctic Circle Prince

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    First Tal. Absolutly.

    Note to self. Give Sea Serpent Marksman.

    Note to self. Revise the way the Wild Trolls are 'wild' for when they are built with spawned Jotnar.
     
  12. Arctic Circle

    Arctic Circle Prince

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    The part that changes you into a baboon? :eek:

    Where? What? Do you mean for submerged sea units or for wild/not so wild Wild Trolls?
     
  13. xienwolf

    xienwolf Deity

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    Not sure precisely where you'd use it. Just spotted you mentioning changing the appearance of units:

    I suppose you could use it quite easily for the Submerged units so that you have a graphical reminder that you ARE submerged.


    Anyway, the code is:

    Code:
    		if iRnd == 60:
    			for iProm in range(gc.getNumPromotionInfos()):
    				if caster.isHasPromotion(iProm):
    					if gc.getPromotionInfo(iProm).isRace():
    						caster.setHasPromotion(iProm, False)
    			caster.setUnitArtStyleType(gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNIT_ARTSTYLE_BABOON'))
    			CyInterface().addMessage(caster.getOwner(),True,25,CyTranslator().getText("TXT_KEY_MESSAGE_WONDER_BABOON", ()),'',1,'Art/Interface/Buttons/Units/Margalard.dds',ColorTypes(8),pPlot.getX(),pPlot.getY(),True,True)
    
    As you see, it strips any racial promotion from the unit (not required, but useful in this case, so you don't have people wondering why an Orc Baboon looks just like an Elf Baboon). The part which matters for your uses would be:

    caster.setUnitArtStyleType(gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNIT_ARTSTYLE_BABOON'))

    Then you just have to define that Artstyle, and ensure that any unit capable of casting the spell is defined for a new appearance option appropriately. If you are using a unique Promotion to indicate the change of state you can probably do it a bit easier using the promotion's innate ability to alter graphics though.
     
  14. Psychic_Llamas

    Psychic_Llamas Wizard in the Making

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    ok, so i still havent even looked at begining work on the woodfather... soon i hope :p sorry :p
     
  15. Tarquelne

    Tarquelne Follower of Tytalus

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    From the posts above I gather that the woodfather is now supposed to look like a baboon.
     
  16. Arctic Circle

    Arctic Circle Prince

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    Hey. I've just gone on vacation, strangely enough that means that we have enven less time to work on Jotnar.. ;)
     
  17. Arctic Circle

    Arctic Circle Prince

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    BETA is uploaded.

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=6924199#post6924199

    To add from a bunch of games. The spawning of Jotnar Citizens can be very random. -very- random. Some games you can have six cities when your other players plants their second, from pure dumb luck (lots of Jotnar Citizens spawned and your Thrall Militia's found a lot of gold when scouting). Other games you can wait until turn 50 before you pop your first Jotnar Citizen.

    In average, it seems to work. I am going to think about a more stable way to make this work. The unpredictability however feels quite 'right'.
     
  18. abculatter2

    abculatter2 Warlord

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    what if you don't want to play this on fall further?
     
  19. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    What would be the easiest way to merge this with the Scions code?
     
  20. Tarquelne

    Tarquelne Follower of Tytalus

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    A.C.
    I just looked, but didn't spot it: Do you have a "PythonCallbackDefines.xml" somewhere in the module? I don't think FF has the "Cannot use civic" callback on by default.


    Last time I copied the Jotnar code to the Scions files. The Jotnar stuff isn't as scattered or as lengthy.

    In the Jotnar CvEventManager I'm pretty sure the bits you need are at lines

    1861-3
    1941-4
    1987-2018

    In the Jotnar CvGameUtils you need

    231-9

    I can't tonight or tomorrow, but with luck on Sun. or Mon. I'll try a merge myself. Last time it didn't hurt to have the Jotnar code in the python, even if you didn't have the Jotnar module.
     

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