Jumping to Emperor

[paulatredies]

Hello Everyone!

My first post here. I am Paul Atredies.

Anyway, I have totally dominated in Monarch: huge map, 16 nations and I ruled the world!

Now, I made the big jump to Emperor, and I'm really stressed out now. I was playing Arabs and that stupid Bismark kept declaring war on me. I was way behind in tech too (at least 4-5). Any idea on how to make a quick start?

I have studied the Ision article, and I kinda followed it. However, the beginning is very frustruating.

Thanks!

 

[Tomoyo]

Welcome to CFC!

The beginning is always frustrating... You just have to persist and cave into demands... As for techs, the convention is buy and trade techs rather than research them yourself.

 

[Ginger_Ale]

Welcome to CFC!

On Emperor, there are two main ways to go about: war and peace.

If you will be stuck in mainly peace, let the AIs go to war with themselves, focus on your cities, and research away. This is the path I normally take...and I can outresearch the AIs by the end of the Middle Ages/start of the Industrial Age, once they start warring.

If you like war/will be in many wars, it is often best to become the 'broker'. Buy techs from strong civs, and sell them to others who do not know them, thereby keeping up in tech. It is too hard to have many wars and focus on production of units and production of scientific at the same time.

 

[paulatredies]

As for techs, the convention is buy and trade techs rather than research them yourself.

Interesting. That's only for the ancient times, right? Because, AI gets really stingy later.

Thanks for the warm welcome!

 

[paulatredies]

If you like war/will be in many wars, it is often best to become the 'broker'.

I like wars!

Especially the quick wars fought on my terms. I usually go with fast units like horses/tanks and run everybody over. Maybe that won't work anymore in Emperor.

I'll have to try that broker thing.

Thanks!

 

[Tomoyo]

Interesting. That's only for the ancient times, right? Because, AI gets really stingy later.

Your economy is supposed to grow with the AI's stinginess...

 

[paulatredies]

Your economy is supposed to grow with the AI's stinginess...

I see. Most of the time, I'm broke. Gotta try-out that zero research strategy.

 

[Tomoyo]

By the way, LK and his gang are trying to test out self-research on Deity, and it might not be as bad as some think.

 

[punkbass2000]

I definitely think it's possible, just not optimal. In fact, for Mon./Emp., I would really only suggest no-research for people who haven't already mastered the levels.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

You might even want to try the current deity gotm.
For deity, i think it is pretty easy.
If you play that game, you can compare your game to the ones posted in the spoilers. Probably you don't care about submitting a gotm yet and happy already to win, then for the educational purpose, you could read the spoilers while playing instead of after playing (but of course then not submit your own game)

Emperor is just on the edge of research or not to research. You can outresearch the AI on emperor if you do pretty well, so then it is still an option.
I also recommend you however not to research. I will now state the options to get your techs, in my order of preference:

-Trade for any techs you have that the AI does not have of course.

-AI 1 has tech A, AI 2 has tech B: Buy tech 1, trade it for tech 2(you will have to pay some gold as well though) now sell your 2 new techs to everyone who has something to offer you, this includes getting part of the money back you payed for tech1. This is the most simplified version of it, but if there are more techs and AI's involved, it is often possible to come our with all the techs available AND all the gold availble in the world.

-Set you science slider to 0, buy tech for gpt and have the AI declare war on you. Do not declare war yourself. You can have the AI declare if they have units on your territory by pissing them of with repeated demands then asking him to leave or declare. It can also work when you see an AI approaching you with offencive units and you predict an attack. Just do the trade, and the AI will still continue the attack. This way you have techs free and your reputation is not hurt. You have to be ready for war of course. Also realise that if the AI does not declare on you, you will either have to pay, or declare yourself, ruining your reputation.

-In peace negotiations. If you have done enough damage, the AI will pay tech's for peace. The disadvantage of this one is that you must stay at peace for 20 turns if you do not want to break your reputation.

-If peace talks with gpt and a bad reputation. If you have a bad rep, the AI will normally not accept your gpt. In peace talks however, it will still continu to do so. So buy techs for gpt in peace talks and redeclare the turn after.
This however ruins your reputation so if it is not ruined yet, be carefull doing this as it will disable the earlier mentioned option of paying gpt then taunting your opponent. Also note that this will not work in combination with getting cities in peace deals. If there is anything on the table from your side, the AI will not give cities.

-Stealing. I don't really like this one, but if all above does no longer work, this is a final resort. Be sure to steal techs you can trade again to other civs.

=========================================================

Reputation is something that i see as a consumable good you have gotten at the start of the game. Consuming it is getting it ruined but reaping some rewards.
While you still have your reputation, you get other benefits, so it is often good to delay ruining your reputation.
Choose the moment to ruin your reputation carefully. Try to get everything out of it you can. Reputation can be used in the following ways, preferebly use them all at the same time to maximize the benifit you have from it at the moment you "use it up"

-Gpt for techs and declare war next turn (if you cannot get the AI to declare on you)
-Getting techs for peace and redeclaring next turn. (usually when the AI has only 1 city remaining)
-Easier to get Alliances(to bring AI's in war with eachother) and Right of Passage with the reputation. At the moment you use these to backstab AI's you have gotten alliances with or when you attack the civ you had a ROP with, your reputation is ruined of course.

 

[sabo]

Looking back on my Civ Career, I think the jump from Monarch to Emp was the most difficult, it seemed that I could only beat the AI if I got the GL, Hang in there, get better, after a while you'll like the higher levels as the wars are more challenging and you have to really rely on tactics as the AI for the most part is always bigger and badder than you good luck

 

[WackenOpenAir]

I just can't think it is so difficult, to be able to stand the higher levels, i think the most important things are: (from a warmongerers point of view, going for dom/conquest, so don't bug me about cultural victories)

-Realise the uselessnes of most city improvements, you only need: Some granary, markets and barracks everywhere. You do not need any happiness building, courthouses or libraries. So don't waste resources on it.

-Realise the important of early growth. Until around 1000BC, you should be building only settlers, workers and granaries with a very few warriors in between (less than 10 by 1000BC)

-Learn that War can give you huge rewards in civ. It enables you to gain more than when building other things. Capture wonders, do not build them. Capture luxes, do not trade them. Get techs trough all methods explained in my earlier post (many including war), do not research them.

-Understand the flow of your game, the length of your game and have a long term plan. Do not underestimate your abilities. If you have in mind a game lasting to the modern ages, you will be doing long term investments like happines buildings that are not worth it. Building these actually causes your game to last so long. If you are used to build them, you are used to winning late, and you keep thinking you need them. Get yourself over that and go for the early victory.
In normal games like the gotm's (not some rediculous bad start) on emperor you should expect to win by knights if there are no long distant oceans to cross (requiring navigation) On deity, expect to win by knights or cavalry.
Just go for it. If you set your expectations too low, you will automatically get a late victory. (Sure, if you set them high and do not succeed, you lose the game, but it will be educational and maybe you will win the next one)
Be arrogant about it and tell yourself you are no less intelligent than those top finishing gotm players.

So just go agressive, go for the EARLY victory. Its a step in the deep that you have to take. As long as you don't dare to take it, you will keep learning wrong things from your game. This is also why i always recommend to start playing at deity right away, not get up there level by level.

 

[juballs2001]

heres an idea. ur behind in techs, i hope u are not to far into the game, amas an army of 20 guys, and attempt to take 3 or 4 german cities, after a few turns offer peace and he should offer u a tech or 2 with peace...works for me sometimes, but im usually in the lead in techs for emperor, i just started demigod

-Juballs

 

[paulatredies]

I just can't think it is so difficult, to be able to stand the higher levels, i think the most important things are: (from a warmongerers point of view, going for dom/conquest, so don't bug me about cultural victories)

-Realise the uselessnes of most city improvements, you only need

-Realise the important of early growth.

-Learn that War can give you huge rewards in civ.

-Understand the flow of your game, the length of your game and have a long term plan.

So just go agressive, go for the EARLY victory.

Sure I like wars, but I like modern wars even better. So, sometimes, like you said, I would drag myself longer just to get to that age. There is nothing like modern armors rolling into enemy cities, submarines firing nukes, and ICBMs flying all over the place. I usually don't go to offensive wars if I don't have one of these in large numbers: knights, tanks, modern armors.

And, in Conquest, choppers could carry three! I have to test that out with TOW infantries.

And, I thank everyone for their replies!

 

[Renata]

To add to Wacken's advice: realize that 4-5 techs behind is not "way behind in techs"! It took me a while to get used to playing from behind, but once I did, I realized it saves piles of money to buy techs as the fourth or fifth civ versus as the first (especially!) or the second. It'll also slow down the tech pace immensely, since you'll never be funding the leading civs' research. You can generally use all the same trading tricks (2-fers) when playing from a few techs behind the leaders as you can playing from in the lead.

Renata

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Also, get away from wanting the tech superiority (meaning the superior weapons) before starting a war. You don't need Knights, MDI/Pikes/Trebs are enough. You don't need Tanks, Inf/Cav/Aris are enough.
Oh, and since the Ai will outproduce you before the Hoover Dam, get used to Cat/Treb/Ari stacks for a favorable kill ratio.

 

[tomart109]

I like wars too.

Some excellent advice here - for example, it took me awhile to learn that 4 or 5 techs behind is ok (it means that they're cheaper!) and early wars can cut dangerous opponents down to size.

I've been experimenting with very early pillaging wars, like the Jag rush or Gallic Swords. Scout your nearest/strongest neighbor and plan your first war before things develop: does he have iron or horses? What's his UU and how can you prevent him building any? Find and prepare to disconnect the dangerous resource. If you can restrict him to building archers while you have fast units running around cutting his roads and destroying his infrastructure, his workers will be hiding in cities while yours are developing your empire. Speed is golden. With it, you can pick and choose your battles and terrain, concentrate where and when you want, and often retreat away from death.

Jags and Impi can't really take his cities, but I'm suggesting that you don't need to - if you lay waste to his empire convincingly, destroy his mines and irrigation, prevent his workers from working, soon he'll give you some techs for peace. If you can thus weaken one of your opponents, then during the 20 turns of peace do it to another, when you return to the first one, you can probably start taking cities and resources. Note that an advanced tech like Chivalry does him no good if you've cut his horses. (Exception: India.)

It's essential to keep him from making alliances against you. Get Writing quickly and Embassies with anyone close enough to matter. You want RoPs and Politeness with everyone (except the current target.) Trade early and often with his neighbors. Make friends and influence civs.

The larger the map, the more important is the Great Library: to capture, not build! In fact, the higher the difficulty, the better it is to capture Wonders.

Later wars, when you're facing stronger weapons, artillery looks delicious. The more, the better.
And Armies too: develop and protect your Veterans and Elites. Do NOT waste Elites by letting them be killed - you want each to fight and win until they spawn their rightful Leader.

 

[morchuflex]

Interesting thread.

However, in many situations, the "broker" strategy simply doesn't work, because most of the AI civs simply don't have any gpt to give (and I'm playing on Emperor level). You buy an expensive tech from the leading opponent, then graciously turn to the underdogs, and when you state your offer, they tell you that 1 gold (lump sum!) seems a fair price to them... This is especially true in Conquests, where the AI is much more reluctant to give gpt than in Vanilla.

Very often, there will be ONE advanced AI civ, then you, then a bunch of losers. The dominating AI will often be a "builder" civ that was lucky enough to have more room to expand, or it can be an aggressive one that quickly conquered one or two initial neighbors and had enough time to assimilate them. In this case, you're doomed. You can't buy from the leader without bleeding to death, and you can't get much from the others.

And as for spying, the cost for "safely" stealing always seems to match the cost of doing your own research. So, I see no point in doing it. But perhaps I miss some important elements. I never actually tried to steal tech, because it was so absurdly expensive.

 

[bingen]

morchuflex,

The AIs give GPT in Conquests all the time. as long as they have it.

You have to give your techs to the underdogs if they cannot afford it. Then they can start researching stuff you do not have and thus help you advance. Also they will often be broke because they are buying from the tech leader. If they are buying techs you already have then this will not help you.

Stealing techs does not scale with difficulty level making it very lucrative at the uppper levels.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Interesting thread.

However, in many situations, the "broker" strategy simply doesn't work, because most of the AI civs simply don't have any gpt to give (and I'm playing on Emperor level). You buy an expensive tech from the leading opponent, then graciously turn to the underdogs, and when you state your offer, they tell you that 1 gold (lump sum!) seems a fair price to them... This is especially true in Conquests, where the AI is much more reluctant to give gpt than in Vanilla.

Very often, there will be ONE advanced AI civ, then you, then a bunch of losers. The dominating AI will often be a "builder" civ that was lucky enough to have more room to expand, or it can be an aggressive one that quickly conquered one or two initial neighbors and had enough time to assimilate them. In this case, you're doomed. You can't buy from the leader without bleeding to death, and you can't get much from the others.

And as for spying, the cost for "safely" stealing always seems to match the cost of doing your own research. So, I see no point in doing it. But perhaps I miss some important elements. I never actually tried to steal tech, because it was so absurdly expensive.

I gave different options to get tech. Don't fear if one doesn't work. Because there is always another one that works. In your one leading AI example, you could first pay the guy all your gpt for his techs. Preferably if he is on your territory so that you can make him furious and tell him to leave.
If not, simply declare yourself.
After 5 turns, he will talk with you again. In those peace talks, you can give him your gpt again for his techs and redeclare the same turn again.
The fun thing is, you can keep doing this as long as you can stand being at war with the guy.
Espescially nice if he is on the other side of an ocean, ally or chockepoint so that you don't even really have to fight him if you don't want to.