Just finished my first FfH game

[flashbacck]

First of all, I loved it. I loved the way magic was implemented, the hero characters and loved the new civic options.

Here are a few things I noticed during my game...

1) The race of each civ is not indicated anywhere. I think it would be incredibly helpful to include in some of the scroll over popups the race of the civ.

2) This is really a balance issue (and may even be intentional) but at one point during my game, I came across an enemy city that had an absurd amount of defense. A heavy crossbow had so many defense buffs, his strength was 55. I ended up bringing multiple high level magic characters and had to sacrifice a few of my own national units just to kill that one crossbowman.

3) I'm almost afraid this mod is suffering from a "more is better" complex. There's already 8? different magic spheres, and I read on the forums more are planned on being introduced? The tech tree is convoluted and difficult to follow because there are so many techs. There are also so many unit types it's difficult for a newbie to remember the purpose of each. All I'm saying is, I think a little more restraint is needed in the introduction of new units/civs/techs/magic/buildings, because what you have now is A LOT and the addition of more doesn't necessarily make the game better.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

First of all, I loved it. I loved the way magic was implemented, the hero characters and loved the new civic options.

Here are a few things I noticed during my game...

1) The race of each civ is not indicated anywhere. I think it would be incredibly helpful to include in some of the scroll over popups the race of the civ.

2) This is really a balance issue (and may even be intentional) but at one point during my game, I came across an enemy city that had an absurd amount of defense. A heavy crossbow had so many defense buffs, his strength was 55. I ended up bringing multiple high level magic characters and had to sacrifice a few of my own national units just to kill that one crossbowman.

3) I'm almost afraid this mod is suffering from a "more is better" complex. There's already 8? different magic spheres, and I read on the forums more are planned on being introduced? The tech tree is convoluted and difficult to follow because there are so many techs. There are also so many unit types it's difficult for a newbie to remember the purpose of each. All I'm saying is, I think a little more restraint is needed in the introduction of new units/civs/techs/magic/buildings, because what you have now is A LOT and the addition of more doesn't necessarily make the game better.

Welcome, glad you liked it.
1. most races are human (even if their leaders aren't). Exceptions:
Khazad are dwarves, Luchuirp are dwarves, Clan of Embers are orcs and their kin, and the svartalfar and Ljosofar are elves. Race doesn't have any big impact (civ does of course) so spelling it out isn't needed, imo, though interesting sure, and will probably be noted in the pedia.

2. In general, the AI is easier than in vanilla (they are slower to learn than new players ), so seeing some well defended cities is a good thing, I think. Bear this in mid--Heavy Crossbowmen, like all top of their line units, are limited to 3 per civ. They get a big bonus, but all promotions are double strength, so your city raider 3 Spartiotoi will have decent odds after using your siege engines or spells.
Which isn't to say that there aren't balance issues, and by all means post those you notice.

3.The tech tree seems overwhelming because it is entirely new from vanilla, and it is broad rather than deep--you have a lot of choice. It *is* new in most every aspect from original civ, but the complexity builds as you play--you don't need magic at first, religion comes a bit later, etc.
There will probably be few if any new units, techs, or buildings added, (other than art), except for the yet to be finished civs.

 

[Kael]

First of all, I loved it. I loved the way magic was implemented, the hero characters and loved the new civic options.

Here are a few things I noticed during my game...

1) The race of each civ is not indicated anywhere. I think it would be incredibly helpful to include in some of the scroll over popups the race of the civ.

That should become more apparent as more UU's are added.

2) This is really a balance issue (and may even be intentional) but at one point during my game, I came across an enemy city that had an absurd amount of defense. A heavy crossbow had so many defense buffs, his strength was 55. I ended up bringing multiple high level magic characters and had to sacrifice a few of my own national units just to kill that one crossbowman.

Did you use siege weapons to lower the cities defense?

3) I'm almost afraid this mod is suffering from a "more is better" complex. There's already 8? different magic spheres, and I read on the forums more are planned on being introduced? The tech tree is convoluted and difficult to follow because there are so many techs. There are also so many unit types it's difficult for a newbie to remember the purpose of each. All I'm saying is, I think a little more restraint is needed in the introduction of new units/civs/techs/magic/buildings, because what you have now is A LOT and the addition of more doesn't necessarily make the game better.

Yeah, I know that its easy to add but the mark of good design is in what is left out. I am the guy that says "no" to ideas so I bear the responsibility for any complecity that doesnt add a sufficent amount of enjoyment. I am fairly aggresive about saying no (poor Loki kicks out a 100 good ideas for every version and I probably only implement 3-4) and we do cut, but not as quickly as we add.

But your right. If I were going to release a truely "final version" of FfH2 I would cut a ton of things. As it is now we add and allow features to stay for testing and fun until we are sure they aren't working.

BTW, I also try to keep my target audience in mind. We are trying to design with a high replay value, for players that have played civ4 and grown kinda bored of it. So that effects our design in that we go for a game that significantly modifies the civ4 formula, and adds enough that game after game can be played while the players learns new features. It isnt a formula that I would consider for a professional game as it would overwhelm the player.

Also, the documentation is just bad. 0.15 is really the first version I consider "playable". ).16 is mostly a polish version that does a ton of work on the pedia and the cosmetic and informational aspects of the game. It will be easier to play, we still have a ways to go, but it will be better.

 

[khanjackal]

I can't imagine what would be cut.

And by the time Quests are introduced, the level of complexity will go through the roof.

In short, the problem is purely one of documentation. Not of features. Features are good.

 

[TheJopa]

I never thought that FfH suffers from 'more is better', in fact, just the opposite. Advanced temples were cut for this reason, for example. And another reason is that I played this mod from very early (when we had Ghandi, Washington and rest of the crew in ) So I absorbed changes steadily, from version to version. But I guess to someone new, it is overwhelming, however you will get familiar very quickly. You shouldn't have problems of taking down 1 heavy crossbowman (Unless he was Grigory Hero ) Bring the catapults to tear down defenses, fireballs for collateral, and another tier 4 (national) unit to finish him. If you have city raider, it is short job. If your national unit isn't experienced, then it is fair crossbowman won.

 

[Unser Giftzwerg]

I played a couple games of FfH Version I before I loaded Version II. I reccomend playing at least one game of Version I for those players who feel overwhelmed by Version II.

 

[flashbacck]

I only bring up the races issue because of the race specific combat promotions.

Regarding the fortified heavy crossbowman, like I said, his strength was 55. This was AFTER I bombarded and fireballed. The city was on a hill and had walls. I think I ended up sacrificing two leveled up spartaroi (one with a commander attached) just to damage him so a third spartaroi could kill him.

 

[Sureshot]

crossbows get bonus' versus melee, and spartaroi's are melee.

you shoulda used a recon unit, no one gets bonuses against them

 

[Chandrasekhar]

Though I'm pretty sure recon units can't get city raider... at least I hope they can't. And you're sure you suicided the fireballs/meteors by attacking the city, not just bombarding with them? 'Cause they're pretty useless for the latter.

 

[OzzyKP]

Excellent to hear Kael, I tend to agree with flashbacck that there is really too much at times. Good to hear there will be an effort eventually to try and trim the fat.

One thing that could be done is more obsoleting of old units. I shouldn't be given the option to build both hunters & rangers.

It really is overwhelming to look at all the options to build in each city.

 

[Sureshot]

well theres a benefit to that, in that then if you so wish you can create lower tier units and upgrade them, to gain promotions you couldnt get normally (which is a fun time)

 

[Jono]

crossbows get bonus' versus melee, and spartaroi's are melee.

you shoulda used a recon unit, no one gets bonuses against them

Are recon still as overpowered as they were in that one Orthus' Axe game?

 

[Chandrasekhar]

-20% city attack, and the rangers are being thankfully nerfed a bit, as strength goes. They still lack resource requirements, of course, and they're at lower tech tiers, but that's another issue.