Just played Civ3 and was glad to quit!

stwils

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What is the matter with me? I used to love Civ3.

But the last few weeks I have been really trying to play better with Civ1. In fact, I think about the game all the time...

So just for a change, I popped the C3C disk into my computer this afternoon. Great graphics. Great music. A real challenge. But too many characters on the stage.

I could not enjoy playing for thinking about Civ1. So I quit the game without even saving it.

What is happening to me that I would want only to play an "old" game made in 1991?

Somehow Civ1 is magical. Is that what it is? It is almost becoming a way of life for me.

I still don't play very well. But I love it.:love:

Anyone here feel like this sometimes?

stwils
 
...one answer maybe is
that CiV1 has a strong GAME character
( although you can play it economical or scientifical and so on, too ... :love: )

while
civ2 and it's follow-ups drove that ol' sid meier funstuff
more and more
into the SiMULATiON genre.


i always thought about what i would like to change or add
to civ1...

- unit vs. unit, not one unit kills a whole stack at same field
- more units and cities ( instead just ~64/128 per civ ... )
- more islands, and inland seas/lakes with islands
- bigger maps (more fields) , sizeable maps, integrated map editor like terraform
- scenery editor
- maybe an air transport unit who can carry lightweight units like one diplomat or one rifleman ... ;)
- rockets with no nuclear load, just ~ artillery firepower...
- a more dependable diplomacy: if you pay enough, the contract partner keeps the peace contract (for example).

...such things would be nice...
 
It will be also fun to have much larger maps with much more nations at them at a time. For example, 512x512 map with 50 nations. It will be fun even to just watch such games (if the AI is realistic and good enough to show interesting struggle).
 
Just started playing Civ 3 myself, find it boring and difficult, you cant discover techs as fast, and the tricks of managing cities aren't as good eg putting production unit into ocean to increase tech light bulbs early in game doesnt seem to work.

It is less simple and too complicated, will keep playing it sometimes but always end up playing civ 1 again (been playing for over 10 years!).

Civ 3 is too much like Age Of Empires, A much better game than Civ 3 is Rome Total War, it is as complicated but way cooler!

Civ 1 forever!
 
Civ3: putting workers to work on water squares does work to increase research. Each water square is 2 trades. But it cuts down your food supply unless you A) are using a lake and not the ocean or B) have a harbor in that city. Generally, early in the game it is best to build roads along rivers. Then you get 1 trade for the river and 1 for the road = 2 trades, just like the water squares, but without the food and production penalty.

Civ3: Can't discover techs as fast as Civ1? I don't know why. I never have trouble. You can also change that in the editor, but I don't think it is any different. Tech advancement is always between 4 turns and 32 turns (unless you don't do any research at all). I think this is the same as in Civ1. Maybe you are just having trouble figuring out how to produce more trade (see first answer).

I just figured out the editor and I think a Civ1 "mode" would be possible on Civ3. I know the wonders and units and city improvements can be easily converted. Play without Domination, Cultural, and Diplomatic victory and it should be pretty close. I don't know how much you can change the tech tree, but it also might be possible. Then you get Civ1 with the Civ3 graphics and maps (far better, IMO).
 
If people could tell me what their problems are with Civ3, like what things from Civ1 make Civ1 better, then I can assemble a list of changes and put together a Civ1 "mode" for Civ3. It seems easy, but time consuming. I'd be happy to do this and share the scenario so that everyone can play their favorite game with improved graphics and sound (if that is what they want). Those who want to stay with the original CivDos are welcome to do so.

I too play both Civ3 and Civ1. I've always preferred Civ1 but recently I've been doing the opposite of stwils. I have found it much harder to stick with Civ1. The graphics are dull, I have to play muted because I can't get sound working, and the random worlds in Civ3 are much more "world" like than Civ1 which gives a bunch of twisty islands. And I really like the additions of visible "borders" (no more enemy civs planting settlers between 4 of your old cities) and a diplomacy system (now I can trade for maps and get gold for my technologies, and pick which technology to let them have). So I'm a huge fan of both games, but I'm trying to get Civ3 to play in a faster way, like good old Civ1.
 
Yeah, I mean.. I've never finished a game of civ3. It does need to be faster and such. I think that's what is making me give up on it. It's just too complicated and long.
 
One of the things that I didn't like about Civ 3 was the way they handle Air units and "bombardment" units like catapult. I loved the diplomacy in Civ 3 but I would love to see the Zone of Control back.
 
I found the Civ1 Zone of Control annoying and exploitable. All it did was prevent one unit from moving from a space next to another Civ's city or unit to next to a second city or unit without attacking. I got pinned between settlers and other silly things, or two cities were built so close together it was impossible to get between them (or out from between them if I was unlucky enough to get stuck there).

Civ3 does have Zone of Control, but only certain units have that power. And instead of stopping a unit from moving, it merely lets the controlling unit take a pot shot at the guy moving past him. I prefer it that way. If you want every unit to have this style of Zone of Control, you can set that up with the Editor. It is very easy.

I agree bombardment was handled badly. My solution is to not build units that bombard (except battleships because they are just cool).
 
You are right, battleships are the best. One thing that I liked more in Civ 1 and Civ 2 was the space ship victory. I liked the idea of having the freedom to build different kind of spaceships (different size and speed) and racing towards Alpha Centauri. It gave more strategy to the game. Now the spaceship victory is just a tech tree race
 
I just spent a week figuring this out after quitting on Civ 3 a number of times over the years, and I'm not that good of a player (obviously), so I'm perfectly qualified for this. All of this advice can probably be found on Civfanatics somewhere, but here it is:

NUMBER ONE THING RIGHT HERE!: 1. There is a quick build option if you go through the setup screen to start a game. Much faster games, like old Civ (not sure if this is just in the patched game).

2. Turn off "show automatic moves" in preferences, this will help in the modern era when you have about 1,000 workers zipping all over giving you a headache.

3. Civ 1 you built every building, every unit, defense was huge. Don't bother in Civ 3. There's virtually no rebellion when your cities are small, so you don't need to build temples in every city. Granary is used for building city size, not for famines (maybe for both?) so it's the most important early building (you'll need lots of workers and settlers). Offensive units are much more plentiful at the beginning of the game, and are far more important than stacking defensive units (because of the borders you can see threats coming and kill them first). Only build 1 or 2 barracks, and use those like unit factories as much as possible. Use a couple cities to crank out money. Use a couple cities to crank out settlers/workers. Specialize a lot.

Overall, in Civ 3, you _must_ be choosy. Don't develop every tech, don't build every building. It's too competitive a game, even on the second difficulty option.

Here's why:

4. Trading is huge-uh! Trade for technologies, you won't get ahead otherwise. Every civilization is competitive in technology and military, so you can't just sit around and build peacefully for 1500 years and expect to keep up like in Civ I. Why? Because the other civs are sharing and aggressive! And they are going to gang up on YOU! So you have to be incredibly active in diplomacy.

5. The AI and the Civilization's borders concept leads to aggressive games. You must focus on building cities for the first few hundreds of years until you've expanded as far as you can on your landmass - every computer player will do this, and then the biggest civilizations will have a huge advantage. This is because of all the diplomacy options related to trading and military (more people=more gold=more military). If you don't participate in trading, it's a huge handicap. The AI all cooperates. Being big makes it easier to play, like having the huge stack in Texas hold 'em. Also, trading keeps them on your side, less likely to gang up on you.

6. The main way in Civ 1 to get tech fast was to explore. That's still in Civ 3, but due to fast expansion, you'll only get a few techs this way. You'll need to get used to hoarding money and paying for techs.

7. Workers and settlers in the first several hundred years. Build mines first (I never delved into the math of the game, I found this advice tremendously useful in the Civ 3 forum).

8. You can't rush Wonders, but you can help them along by clearing forest in the same city and disbanding previously built units. Or if you're lucky enough to get a Great Leader in battle (a totally undeveloped facet of this game). Not a real recommendation, but kind of a trick when you're desperate to finish fast.

9.And choose an "industrious" starting civ, at least until you get used to the new gameplay. They have some advantages that aren't obvious to me (again, I'm completely ignorant of the Civ 3 math, even though I'm a programmer, historian and know statistics, I'd rather just play).

10. I find due to the competitiveness, that I hardly ever have Wonders to work on, and when I do, they are often built first by the other civs. This almost never happened in Civ 1. They're so much more aggressive. Remember, the lesser wonders can be built by multiple Civs. Also in Wonders, there's much more of a bias towards continents - most of the bonuses are continent based. So keep that in mind as you expand, or choose who to invade.

11. Have a tech plan based on Wonders and their bonuses, so you aren't building temples and the Oracle, etc. I loved building everything for high scores, but again, the AI is too good.

Well, the basic advice is to check the quick build option in the setup screen, turn off "Show automatic moves" in the preferences screen (too many workers in Civ 3), expand much, much faster than you're used to, and talk to the computer players as much as possible (you'll even have to capitulate to demands occasionally, which was never the case in Civ 1). Save money for diplomacy and war. Micromanage Workers and the Tech Tree.
 
Rebuttal to solomonrex's advice:
First this is the Civ1 forum, not the Civ3 forum. If people wanted Civ3 strategy I'm sure they know where to go. I don't know forum policy here, but at the other forum I visit they strongly discourage (actually lock or move threads) posting about the other games in the wrong forums.

Now I'm going to blatantly continue to talk about Civ3 since you started it! :crazyeye:

Mostly correct. The AI does cooperate and gang up on the player, making it very hard compared to Civ1. The only way to avoid this is diplomacy. Trade often. At least trade your map. If you can afford it and you have the technology, then trade techs that don't matter and surplus luxuries. Getting gold per turn will really turn your economy around. You do have to specialize your cities. If you try to build everything in every city, you will bankrupt your empire and lose the game as everyone zips ahead of you in technology. The fast build option is only in the later patched versions. You can still get lots of free techs popping goodie huts. You really can only compete this way if you have the Expansionist trait (gives you a "scout" type unit that moves fast at low cost). Industrious trait lets workers do things 50% faster (you do in 2 turns what other civs do in 3 turns).

Completely wrong: #8. It is impossible to trick the game and speed up any wonder by normal means (cutting down forests, hurrying production, disbanding units, or hurrying another building and switching to a wonder). The game will not allow it. The only way it is possible is with a great leader.

My own input. Corruption is very high. Oppressive. Deal with it and move on. Don't waste your energy on those totally corrupt cities. Let them grow as big as they can without spending money on them. If you need a temple to make them happy, don't--make an entertainer citizen. If you need an aqueduct/hospital to make them grow, don't--be satisfied with 6/12 citizens. Turn any extra citizens into taxmen or scientists. Get something good out of these worthless corrupt towns.
 
This wasn't supposed to be a strategy guide. Obviously, I'm not qualified, for the reasons you pointed out. I just wanted to give my experience with making Civ 3 enjoyable for Civ 1 fans. I just had an epiphany this week, after trying to like Civ 3 for years, and now I'm actually getting somewhere on more than the lowest difficulty level.

In other words, if you like Civ 1, this is how you can make Civ 3 playable. But that was too much to dump on a Civ 1 thread. And I know I'm years behind on all this, anyway. It was just too much of a coincidence not to talk about it.
 
Solomonrex,

I like your ideas about how to make Civ1 fans enjoy Civ3 more.

I am printing out your ideas, yours and Alex's, and see if I can get Civ3 more like Civ1.

The graphics are enjoyable and fun to see. However, I love the old Civ1 graphics because they are so abstract.

The basic game of Civ1 is the best and the foundation. Some of the things in Civ3 are an improvement, but others are just too complicated and make the game last too long and are too hard for me to enjoy.

I am setting my game preferences to pare a lot of Civ3 down. The great leader is the first to go!

But I like the diplomacy, don't you?

Anyway, I am going to continue to play both Civ1 and Civ3. And with your advice, I think I can fix Civ3 where I can enjoy it more. It will not be Civ1, but it will be perhaps less complicated.

Thanks to both of you.
stwils
 
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