K-Mod: Far Beyond the Sword

Has the resource distribution been changed at all? The first game i started i got the best start i`ve ever had. Moved 1 tile settled on banana and then in the BFC i had 4 clams, 1 corn, 1 rice, the rest grassland or plains hills with an iron later on. Got to a size 21 capital (Cahokia) by about 700AD.

Also, i play on large, epic maps mostly and wondered if the yearly increments have changed at all because it usually takes me at least 3 times as long to get to 700AD ish.
 
Also, i play on large, epic maps mostly and wondered if the yearly increments have changed at all because it usually takes me at least 3 times as long to get to 700AD ish.

Game optimization is the word. Game is much more faster on K-mod than original, but not in turn count, just in real time. U need less time to play same amount of turns. ;)
 
The turns are so fast (especially with show enemy/friendly moves not turned on) I wouldnt mind the turns being longer if the ai was even smarter. idk how much of a difference it would make.

Modern age, you definitely appreciate the turn length compared to "old" civ4.
 
Jelous you guys can play with this mod grr !

I followed exactly the instructions about the different dll files on the WINE HQ site. Already submitted a bug report, hopefully a dev will answer soon.

Thanks for the support karadoc !
 
This is not K-mod related but i gotta say it. I play a lot of games, or to be precise mods for games, and i havent seen a mod developer who is more "user friendly" than u karadoc. Not only that u help with your mod problems (thats the default developer behavior :P) but u help ppl with various problems that are not directly involved in ur mod. A big plus from me! Keep it up!
 
I've uploaded version 1.15. It has a couple of minor gameplay changes, and a bunch of AI refinements. I don't think it will be hugely different, but it should be a bit better.

Let me just use an example to explain the capitulation change in v1.15:
Suppose my team is at war with teams A and B; and winning both wars. And suppose teams A and B sign a peace treaty with one another. In the previous rules, that peace treaty would prevent either of those teams from capitulating to me. They would refuse to capitulate because "joining the war on your side is not possible for us". Under the new rules, they would be allowed to capitulate; and if they did so, they would automatically declare war on the other team, as usual, despite their peace treaty.

My reasoning for this change is that their capitulation signals that they are giving me control of their civilization. Their peace treaties will no longer be valid. (In fact, even with the original rules it was possible for capitulated teams to violate their peace treaties in a similar way - as long as it didn't happen on the same turn as the actual capitulation!) Voluntary vassalization is a bit different, because the vassal team would be voluntarily agreeing to the deal -- and thus voluntarily violating the peace treaty with the third party. So K-Mod still does not allow that.

Anyway, I don't think this change will have a large impact on gameplay; but it will remove some annoying situations where team A and team B are both ready to vassalate to you, but can't do so because of their peace treaty with one another. But let me know if you find any problems or weirdnesses.

Spoiler :
Apparently, vassalization, vassalate and weirdnesses are not officially words... but I'm sure you all know what I mean, and I couldn't think of better words to replace them with! You might think I should use vassalize instead of vassalate, but to me it seems that vassalize is something the master does, and vassalate is what the vassal does.


Has the resource distribution been changed at all? The first game i started i got the best start i`ve ever had. Moved 1 tile settled on banana and then in the BFC i had 4 clams, 1 corn, 1 rice, the rest grassland or plains hills with an iron later on. Got to a size 21 capital (Cahokia) by about 700AD.

Also, i play on large, epic maps mostly and wondered if the yearly increments have changed at all because it usually takes me at least 3 times as long to get to 700AD ish.
I haven't changed the resource distribution, or the yearly increments. At one stage I wanted to change the resource distribution - in particular, I wanted to tell the game that a plains-cow shouldn't count as a high-food resource. The point was to fix the problem where starting locations sometimes have only a plains cow for the food supply. Unfortunately, I couldn't find the code that controlled that stuff, so I didn't end up fixing it. :( -- Anyway, the answer is no. I haven't changed that stuff.

That reminds me though. Does anyone have any feedback on the map-script that I made? I reckon it makes pretty good large size maps. Decent size continents; plenty of islands to expand to by boat; and lots of variation from game to game. That's the kind of stuff I like in a map script anyway. Unfortunately, sometimes there's a player who gets a really bad starting spot, on a narrow island on one of the ice-caps or something...

This is not K-mod related but i gotta say it. I play a lot of games, or to be precise mods for games, and i havent seen a mod developer who is more "user friendly" than u karadoc. Not only that u help with your mod problems (thats the default developer behavior :P) but u help ppl with various problems that are not directly involved in ur mod. A big plus from me! Keep it up!
Thanks. :) I don't always help people though... which reminds me, I forgot to respond to Radio Noer.

Could I make a request, I'm not sure how big it is. Anyways, I am working on a new mod and would like to have your AI plus ranged bombardment, which requires its own dll. Would it be possible for you to merge them or something, the AI doesn't have to be a genius with it, just be aware that it exists and can use it.
I'm not going to do that. Sorry. Depending on how the ranged-bombard thing is written, it could be a fairly quick merge, or it could be a slow and painful merge... and I don't really want to find out which it is. I don't really want to take on any side-projects right now.

Do you considered merge the component "super forts" in your mod?
I just looked that up to see what it was. It sounds like a decent component, but I don't think I'll include it. When I first started playing Civ4, I was a bit surprised that forts didn't connect resources from outside of your borders (in Civ3 they do); but now, I'm use to it. And not only am I use to it, but the AI is use to it. It's an rule that affects many aspects of the game's strategy. So although "super forts" sounds alright, I don't think it's appropriate for this mod.

(Also, there are some aspects of super-forts which I think would be a bit problematic. For example, it says that they produce some culture... which would mean that you could reinforce your cultural borders by building a heap of forts. This seems strange to me. Also, it says that the forts can never flip if they are guarded by a military unit -- this seems weird to me, because cities themselves can flip. Maybe these kinds of things are ok.. but the main thing is that it would be a significant change to the way the game is played, and I don't want to do that right now.)
 
I'm not going to do that. Sorry. Depending on how the ranged-bombard thing is written, it could be a fairly quick merge, or it could be a slow and painful merge... and I don't really want to find out which it is. I don't really want to take on any side-projects right now.

That's quite alright, I completely understand, keep up the great work!
 
If you tinker with vassals, did you think about changing the way capitulation at war works ?

Now, if yourself and civ B (at peace) are at war with civ C and that civ C capitulates to B, you are automatically at peace with C. You can for sure re-declare war on both, but your units have been teleported, usually not a good thing.

What I'd crave to see is something like, from B: "we are taking C under our protection; do you really wish to continue the war and thus war with us?"

Not sure at all it's feasible though.
 
Hi Karadoc,

after some time I re took Civ IV ( so many problems in real life:sad: )

and I noticed two bugs in 115:

1) Victory condition panel: disappered info about voting poll (Bug mod)
2) on attached save, Rotterdam has 12 pop point but only 4 are showed. Next turn all 12 pop point are displayed again.

A suggestion: why explorers can't update to rifleman or better? (I know that is a Firaxis decision)

Always a great job!!!
 

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If you tinker with vassals, did you think about changing the way capitulation at war works ?

Now, if yourself and civ B (at peace) are at war with civ C and that civ C capitulates to B, you are automatically at peace with C. You can for sure re-declare war on both, but your units have been teleported, usually not a good thing.

What I'd crave to see is something like, from B: "we are taking C under our protection; do you really wish to continue the war and thus war with us?"

Not sure at all it's feasible though.
That's not a bad idea. I think it might be possible to implement, but it might be a bit tricky; and there might be some bad side effects in simultaneous turn mode. I'm not going to try to implement it right away, but I'll keep it in mind.

On the topic of modifying diplomacy, here's a different idea that I've had in mind for some time: when the AI asks you to change civics, currently if you agree to it then you are forced to change immediately. Usually you won't want to do this, even if you don't mind adopting the civic - because you'll want to switch some other civic as well. My idea is to change it so that when you agree to switch civics, it doesn't immediately switch, by rather forces you to switch by the end of the turn. So you can either just have your turn normally and let it switch automatically; or you can manually switch civics, and perhaps choose a different civic in another branch at the same time. This would also allow you to do some final slave-whipping before being forced out of slavery...

Anyway, that's another idea that I think would be good, but probably difficult to implement.

While I'm on the topic of possible changes, here are a couple of UI things that I've changed for the next version. Let me know if you think any of them would be bad for any reason:
  • Amphibious landings can now be executed even if the group isn't ready to move. (eg. if you have a transport on the coast, with no moves left, ording it to move onto the land will now cause it to unload its cargo.)
    Automated units will wait until the "automoves" phase before moving rather than doing it as soon as it is their turn. For example, if you press "automate" on a worker, it will queue what it's action is going to be - but not actually start doing it until you've cycled through all of your units. So if you want, you can select the worker and see what it is actually going to do - and perhaps decide that you don't want it to be automated after all!
I can't think of anything wrong with the first point, but for the second point I'm less sure. One issue is that if you have some workers automated and some still on manual control, you might tell your manual workers to build an improvement that the automated workers wanted to build -- or worse, you might try to build a different improvement on the same plot! That would suck.

Another example to consider is that you might have an airship on autoexplore. The new system would have the advantage of letting you turn off autoexplore before the airship actually moves. So, of some enemy units have just showed up, and you want to bomb them instead of doing recon, you can do so. But the disadvantage is that if you actually do want to do recon, you'll probably want it to happen before you move your other units... so you'll have to tell everything to "wait" so that the autoexplore airship gets a chance to do its automoves... --

So... It's a change that I'm in two minds about. Let me know what you think. Maybe I should make it a 'BUG' option. [edit] On second though, I can't make it an optional feature - at least not with the current implementation - because it would cause OOS errors.[/edit]

Hi Karadoc,

after some time I re took Civ IV ( so many problems in real life:sad: )

and I noticed two bugs in 115:

1) Victory condition panel: disappered info about voting poll (Bug mod)
2) on attached save, Rotterdam has 12 pop point but only 4 are showed. Next turn all 12 pop point are displayed again.

A suggestion: why explorers can't update to rifleman or better? (I know that is a Firaxis decision)

Always a great job!!!

Here's my guess for what happened in Rotterdam: on the previous turn, there was a cultural revolt in that city. The cultural revolt made them lose access to most of the tiles that they were working, and so they automatically stopped working those - and thus had a bunch of spare citizens. Usually, those spare citizens would be reassigned somewhere else; but for efficiency, K-Mod does not automatically assign citizens when the city is in disorder. (eg. a cultural revolt, or a revolution).

Notice that although in your screenshot it says it is going to lose a heap of food, if you check again on the next turn, it hasn't actually lost that food. So the Mali must have assigned the citizens during their own turn. So it looks like the city came out of revolt at the start of your turn, but only had its citizens fixed during the Mali turn a bit later on. It kind of sucks that you see the unassigned citizens in between the revolt and the reassignment, but that's a pretty minor problem - I'm not sure if I'll bother trying to fix it. (I'm not even sure what the "fix" would look like. Would it show the city still in revolt?)

Regarding the missing voting info -- I think I removed that when I first started K-Mod. (If it was there in previous versions, then I remembered wrong.) From memory, my reason for removing it was that I it basically told you who the other civs were going to vote for. I thought that was a bad feature. The AI may be stupid and predictable, but I don't think we should mock them by predicting their votes in the victory screen! :p In any case, I did like that the BUG screen told us when the next vote would actually happen... So I should probably edit the screen a little bit and then bring it back.

Goodluck with the real life stuff. I wish I could edit the source code for that...

[edit]
I forgot to mention: one side effect of allowing explorers to be upgraded to something is that they would keep their free promotions... Another is that when you can build every upgrade path for a unit, the base unit becomes unavailable - so if explores could only upgrade to riflemen, then riflemen would make explorers unbuildable - which is bad because riflemen aren't necessarily better. (explorers get two moves, better goody-huts, and they ignore terrain costs.) So those are a couple of technical reasons for why explorers can't upgrade. -- One idea that I've been toying with though, is to allow explorers to get the woodsman 3 promotion. (currently they are not allowed to get it, for who-knows what reason). If they could get woodsman 3, then they would probably make good medics.
 
On the topic of modifying diplomacy, here's a different idea that I've had in mind for some time: when the AI asks you to change civics, currently if you agree to it then you are forced to change immediately. Usually you won't want to do this, even if you don't mind adopting the civic - because you'll want to switch some other civic as well. My idea is to change it so that when you agree to switch civics, it doesn't immediately switch, by rather forces you to switch by the end of the turn. So you can either just have your turn normally and let it switch automatically; or you can manually switch civics, and perhaps choose a different civic in another branch at the same time. This would also allow you to do some final slave-whipping before being forced out of slavery...

Not sure about this one. But if you do it, just be careful for what happens when two leaders, in the same turn, ask you to switch to contradictory civics :)
 
I have a question but before I ask let me start off by saying that: Yes, Vassals are enabled. Did something change with the ability change your overseas cities into colonies? I have a game (posted the most recent save), where I have several overseas cities on the same continent and cannot colonize them.

Shouldn't the "orange fist" button be on the domestic advisor screen? Was this changed or removed somehow? What am I missing?...
 
I haven't deliberately changed the rules for craeating overseas colonies. So if the rules are different, then it's probably a bug...

That said, the save file you uploaded doesn't even open for me. It seems to be corrupt or something.
 
Here's my guess for what happened in Rotterdam: on the previous turn, there was a cultural revolt in that city. The cultural revolt made them lose access to most of the tiles that they were working, and so they automatically stopped working those - and thus had a bunch of spare citizens. Usually, those spare citizens would be reassigned somewhere else; but for efficiency, K-Mod does not automatically assign citizens when the city is in disorder. (eg. a cultural revolt, or a revolution).

Notice that although in your screenshot it says it is going to lose a heap of food, if you check again on the next turn, it hasn't actually lost that food. So the Mali must have assigned the citizens during their own turn. So it looks like the city came out of revolt at the start of your turn, but only had its citizens fixed during the Mali turn a bit later on. It kind of sucks that you see the unassigned citizens in between the revolt and the reassignment, but that's a pretty minor problem - I'm not sure if I'll bother trying to fix it. (I'm not even sure what the "fix" would look like. Would it show the city still in revolt?)

Regarding the missing voting info -- I think I removed that when I first started K-Mod. (If it was there in previous versions, then I remembered wrong.) From memory, my reason for removing it was that I it basically told you who the other civs were going to vote for. I thought that was a bad feature. The AI may be stupid and predictable, but I don't think we should mock them by predicting their votes in the victory screen! :p In any case, I did like that the BUG screen told us when the next vote would actually happen... So I should probably edit the screen a little bit and then bring it back.

Goodluck with the real life stuff. I wish I could edit the source code for that...


I forgot to mention: one side effect of allowing explorers to be upgraded to something is that they would keep their free promotions... Another is that when you can build every upgrade path for a unit, the base unit becomes unavailable - so if explores could only upgrade to riflemen, then riflemen would make explorers unbuildable - which is bad because riflemen aren't necessarily better. (explorers get two moves, better goody-huts, and they ignore terrain costs.) So those are a couple of technical reasons for why explorers can't upgrade. -- One idea that I've been toying with though, is to allow explorers to get the woodsman 3 promotion. (currently they are not allowed to get it, for who-knows what reason). If they could get woodsman 3, then they would probably make good medics.

Regarding Rotterdam: I did't see the revolt. However I think that a fix is too complex... The point is that it isn't a major bug.

Regarding BUG voting info: please, restore if possible, only the info about how many turns for a new vote/election.

Regarding explorers: I haven't seen the question with your point of view... and now I agree with you.

Regarding the good luck: Thanks! However the only thing left for me to do is accept what happened and continue to live.
 
Okay - Here is a post for the colonies question.

Note: I am using the 48-civ DLL (which does allow for colonies). This is why the file seemed to be corrupted for you.

Note2: You will notice that you CAN "colonize" your foreign cities, however, the only choice to "grant independence" is to gift your cities to a fellow civilization.

There is not choice to "grant independence" to form a new civilization. Unless I'm just complete wrong?

Note3: I started with, I believe, 42 civs. If that matters.

Note4: I cannot upload a new version save of the game because it exceeds the max for the filetype of this site. The 1907 post (48civ dll) is the one that is the most recent that can be used.
 
Right. The save works with the 48 civ dll.

I've opened it debug mode to see why it won't let you form a colony. The result is that the game says that there are no civs left that haven't already existed. (I don't mean that there have been 48 civs, I mean that there has been one of every kind of civ, eg. aztec, american, etc.)

So that kind of sucks. I suppose that with so many different civs in the game at the start, it would probably be helpful if there were a few more civs to choose from so that this problem didn't come up so often. (Alternatively, the rules could be changed to allow civs to be reborn...)

By the way, if you want to upload more saves, can't you just delete your old ones? Here.
 
I like the automove-waiting idea. For me it would cause far fewer headaches than it would prevent. Very few things in Civ annoy me more than an accidentally-automated unit running off in a stupid direction, or a turn starting and me wanting to cancel a unit's automation but not getting to it fast enough. This change would fix that. After all, if a war broke out and I wanted my stuff to do aerial recon, I could always manually command them. :)

Going to be playing a game of Civ again soon and will be using K-Mod for it again. :) I've been following the recent changes and am excited about them.
 
A question:

a very frequent human tactic is to use a spy to put a city in revolt for a turn, use max 8 siege units to collateral damage and then mop up city defenders with a little sod.

Example: 8 defenders, max 10 attackers + 5-6 siege.

Tha AI will use these tactic?

I know that is risky, but an opportunistic AI can use it wisely to gain advantage over a unprepared civilization.
 
Just an opinion...run with it however you like:

Is it just me or is environmentalism truly overpowered? I mean, you get MASSIVE increases in health which massively increases city sizes and therefore science and production, with also a happiness boost. I think that environmentalism should come with a -25% hammer value to all cities. Research has proven that there is nothing that compares to the efficiency of hydro, fossil or nuclear power...and nothing is on the horizon. Sure, maybe some of the population is happier with "going green," but the amount of lost electricity wattage would lead to serious losses in industry and food production in real life...which I'd be willing to say would cancel out the happiness factor for most people. Lower quality of life with more expensive energy prices and prices in general due to the energy increases would probably tend to wear on people rather quickly. It takes an area nearly the size of Vermont full of windfarms to equal the production value of one nuclear power plant. Just to be fair, here is a webisite for some more thoughts on the issue: http://nuclearfissionary.com/2010/04/02/comparing-energy-costs-of-nuclear-coal-gas-wind-and-solar/
Environmentalism seems truly over-powered and is not accurately reflected in the game today.
 
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