K-Mod: Far Beyond the Sword

Personally, I'd like the salon looked into, its extra benefits (+1 free artist) can be near worthless if you arent going to a culture win (and its late to arrive in the tech tree).

Maybe if it was +1 free citizen specialist, so that you could pick which extra specialist you wanted, then it would be more attractive..

It's nice if you have Representation, since that artist will generate 4 science points, which becomes 5 since the observatory increases it by 25%. That said, I changed it to a free specialist as you described and it works well.

Speaking of UB's, do you think it's fair to let Hippodromes assign artists? I'm not sure why they shouldn't be able to.
 
Whenever I think about how best to improve Chichen Itza, I can't help but think it should have something to do with city growth or healthiness or something like that. I know very little about what Chichen Itza is - but if I remember correctly, it's actually a kind of irrigation system or something like that.

I had a quick look and

Wikipedia said:
There are two large, natural sink holes, called cenotes, that could have provided plentiful water year round at Chichen, making it attractive for settlement.

What about making all plots in the city have fresh water? If that's technically difficult, perhaps all plots within your civilization. Obviously the civ-wide version would need to severely limited by a quick obselence (Optics rather than Rifling?).
 
I hope there are plans for vanilla version of K-Mod should all such balancing changes be implemented. That was one of the major appeal the mod held for me so the option would be appreciated.
 
Ya I just looked at hippodrome and that not being able to assign an artist thing (compared to a theater) seems to be an oversight rather than a necessary balancing point.

Good catch.
 
Has anyone checked whether totem poles (Native american UU, +3 experience for archery units) dont go obsolete? Karadoc made monuments not go obsolete as a sensible change- I think you still have to stop building them at a certain point but they dont lose their culture bonus.
 
Monuments have not been changed in K-Mod. Monuments and Totem Poles are still obsolete with Astronomy, but like all buildings, they continue producing culture after they have become obsolete.

K-Mod changed Stonehenge so that it is not obsolete with Astronomy, so that the monuments from Stonehenge don't disappear leaving the civ worse off compared to civs without Stonehenge. Maybe that's what you were thinking of.

As for the hippodrome, that's something that I've been considering changing for a long time. I don't really think the Byzantines need the buff as such, but the hippodrome is the only unique building which can often end up being worse than the standard building. On the other hand though, there are a few unique units which have disadvantages relative to the units they replace. For example, Dog Soldiers are generally worse if you already have copper; and Samurais are worse if you have copper but not iron...

In terms of buildings, I suppose Ziggurats could be worse for civs who don't want to research priesthood, but that only takes a low-cost tech to overcome.

Anyway... I'm inclined to agree that the hippodrome should probably allow artists. I just haven't changed it because I don't think it's very important, and I generally prefer to leave things unchanged unless the benefits are clear.

I hope there are plans for vanilla version of K-Mod should all such balancing changes be implemented. That was one of the major appeal the mod held for me so the option would be appreciated.
I'm not really sure what you mean by a 'vanilla version'. I suppose you're talking about having a version that doesn't have any balance changes - but the thing is, even the very first version of K-Mod had some balance changes; and some of K-Mod's best features are balance changes (eg. the redesign of global warming, culture spread, and religion spread).

I don't intend to try to split the balance changes from the other stuff - but I think it's safe to say that the balance changes in K-Mod have relatively little affect on how the game is played. The general goal of each balance change is to elevate parts of the game which would otherwise be ignored due to lack of viability.

eg. The culture spread changes and global warming unhappiness were in part designed to increase the viability of artists and the culture slider in culture conflicts.
The changes to the Drill promotion line were intended to make those promotions a viable and unique alternative to the Combat line.
The changes to Serfdom were designed to make Serfdom viable in the mid-game but still weak in the end-game.

And so on.
 
I hope there are plans for vanilla version of K-Mod should all such balancing changes be implemented. That was one of the major appeal the mod held for me so the option would be appreciated.

I'm not really sure what you mean by a 'vanilla version'. I suppose you're talking about having a version that doesn't have any balance changes - but the thing is, even the very first version of K-Mod had some balance changes; and some of K-Mod's best features are balance changes (eg. the redesign of global warming, culture spread, and religion spread).

I don't intend to try to split the balance changes from the other stuff - but I think it's safe to say that the balance changes in K-Mod have relatively little affect on how the game is played. The general goal of each balance change is to elevate parts of the game which would otherwise be ignored due to lack of viability.

eg. The culture spread changes and global warming unhappiness were in part designed to increase the viability of artists and the culture slider in culture conflicts.
The changes to the Drill promotion line were intended to make those promotions a viable and unique alternative to the Combat line.
The changes to Serfdom were designed to make Serfdom viable in the mid-game but still weak in the end-game.

And so on.
Balance changes do change the way the game is played, that is their reason for existance. Whether the changes themselves are good or not, it is safe to say that the reason was always to make actions/strategies viable or possible that weren't viable/possible before - even if you deem them insignificant, a change is still a change.

The real problem here, as I see it, that all those changes you made are good and improve the game in your eyes, because you were the one who thought them up and implemented them. In order for everyone else to feel the same, the very least you could do would be to make a complete list of all changes you made, especially those that are not visible - I am talking culture and religion spread mechanics. How were those working before exactly, what exactly did you change, and why exactly? As verbose as possible.

Many modders might look at your mod for AI improvements to incorporate into their own, but your changes to game mechanics make it very difficult to extract those. I'm sure you meant well when you revamped the culture thing and reinvented global warming but I have to agree with Hesmyrr, an AI-improvements-only version for BTS 3.19 rules/mechanics would be very nice to have.
 
The real problem here, as I see it, that all those changes you made are good and improve the game in your eyes, because you were the one who thought them up and implemented them. In order for everyone else to feel the same, the very least you could do would be to make a complete list of all changes you made, especially those that are not visible - I am talking culture and religion spread mechanics. How were those working before exactly, what exactly did you change, and why exactly? As verbose as possible.

As I see it, the least I can do is nothing at all. There's already a step-by-step log of every change I've made since early in the development of this mod (don't forget that all of those messages can be clicked on for more information and details), and there is a less verbose changelog included as a text file with the mod. I appreciate that the format isn't ideal for all purposes - but frankly, if you aren't satisfied with the format of those logs, then perhaps you should write the logs yourself rather than telling me it's the "least I could do". All the info is there.
 
Yet again my wording isn't as pleasing as I want it to be. Sorry for that. I still feel that no amount of commit logs replaces a good list of differences between stock BTS and the mod, especially when it claims not to be that different.

I'm happy enough with the logs there, however there are changes already present in your initial commit, including your new culture mechanics, and parts of your gw.
But you are probably right, I should have used your initial commit to start, and compared it to Better BTS AI for dll and BUG for python; and afterwards simply going through all commits one at a time would have been the proper way to go, even if those 30 pages of commits would have taken a long time to wade through.

Even your culture mechanic doesn't look that complicated. Static +3 range for plot culture, still scaling by distance but differently and including city culture rate in that scaling instead of just the now less important free culture. I can totally see how this enables culture wars by slider (even if I don't like that idea).

One more comment: I believe "global warming", if it even deserves that name, is a game mechanics I remember from civ2 where the main purpose was to penalize the use of nuclear weapons. In Civ4 the purpose remains the same: Players who win by bombing the entire planet get lots of dessert, which means a reduction in maximum population and thus the score is lower in the end.
So, while I am sure your mechanic deserves the name "global warming" a lot more, is more intuitive and whatever, it no longer serves that one purpose.
 
I just played (and quit) a game where an island neighbor of mine (Victoria) got machine guns in the 1550s. Im playing on emperor, on the map "not too big or too small", so I conquered my only same continent neighbor, have a awesome great specialist economy (maybe my mistake not using great people for instant techs), spread my religion, got the apostolic palace, have about 80% cottages...

And I look at my neighbor in the 1550s, and shes got 10 transports and 5 or 6 machine guns in the closest city I can see. We are exactly the same size. She did conquer her neighbor earlier than me.

Questions:

1. Am I getting out tech traded? How bad does the ai descriminate for trading only with itself?

2. How damaging is it that I use great specialists rather than getting instant techs from great people?

3. Is it more an issue of emperor level tech bonuses?

4. What are other people's ways of staying up to date in tech? Epsionage? More cottages? When I conquered my neighbor, I made peace about 3 or 4 times and got a tech each time, apparently that wasnt enough...

5. How can the ai have 2 or 3 times my military (supposedly) and massively out tech me at the same time, while we are both the same size (although getting ahead in tech means you can tech faster, like a positive feedback loop).
 
Settling great people is generally good only very early in the game and for philo leaders. Pyramids can make it a little more viable. But yes, I think this may be the problem.
If you provide a save, I may be able to tell you in more detail what's wrong...

One more thing... There is no uberstrategy which can catapult you up in the level and allow you to keep up with techs where you usually didn't. When it comes to difference between Emperor/Immortla/Deity level players, it is usually lots of little things: slightly more efficient micro, slightly better dotmap, slightly more efficient warfare... Taken separetely these things are insignificant but they do add up.
 
@Charles

One thing I have been doing lately is to play "Custom Game" and turn on the "No tech brokering" option. This means that civs can only trade techs that they have fully researched themselves. Otherwise you tend to find that the AI civs trade techs far too freely, and if one civ gets a tech, suddenly they all have it.

Another recent discovery for me is the power of Great Spies in the early game. I used to think they were rather naff and and just used them to start Golden Ages, but actually you can use the EPs you gain from infiltrating a powerful neighbour to steal several good technologies, particularly if you apply discounts for stationary spy and your culture in that city (so if they build a city near a cultural city of yours, you can exploit it mercilessly with spies). Basically, this means building the Great Wall as that's the only way of getting a Great Spy early on. It's also a pretty useful wonder for expansion, depending on what map type and how much a barbs-problem you have.

If you're going for specialists the Pyramids are a must-have for Constitution and the extra beakers. You mention that you have a lot of cottages, but really, Specialist-economy and cottage-spam are two different strategies. If you're going for specialists, you need to be building a lot of farms instead.

Tech-trading: watch what others are researching and research something else, so that you can trade. At higher difficulties, tech trading is very important because you have no hope of keeping up otherwise.

I usually play Monarch, but at Emperor I've only been able to win by finding my nearest neighbour and conquering them as early as possible, as their capital will usually be a good financial / tech city.

The leader you play also makes a difference. The Financial trait is way overpowered, and some leaders are just plain better than others: Huayna Capac for example makes it hard to lose (quechua rush!), and Van Orange is a close second. You need to play to your leader's strengths - for example, if playing as Suleiman, then you should bee-line to Gunpowder and build stacks of Janissaries. Boudica is one of my favourites, as (being Aggressive) you get Combat I for free, and +1 XP for melee units with the Dun in addition to the 3 XP from cheap Barracks, and since she's Charismatic you only need 4 XP for 2 further promotions. So straight away you're churning out melee units with 3 promotions. Add Vassalage and Theocracy (or 2 Great Military Instructors) and you have a ton of Combat IV melee units that haven't even seen battle yet!

Lately I've been playing Tectonics maps. These are usually pretty interesting.
 
Question for karadoc: I'm finding that Macemen aren't getting the Guerilla I promotion from the Dun. I thought this was just because they're not usually eligible for Geurilla I, but according to this, the Dun should enable this promotion for other melee units. I'm not absolutely sure what happens in vanilla BTS, but was this a nerf you added? I can't find mention of it in the changelog.
 
Thanks for the tips Rbj.

I have a huge suspicion that the ai trades tech with itself way too much, as you said. I play on epic game speed to get a feel for the eras and that overblown tech trading bothers me, so I'll try no tech brokering.

I just started a new game and instantly invaded my neighbor...i skipped religion and all wonders except the oracle, didnt expand too much, and crushed my neighbor. I still put 3 or 4 great engineers in my main production city with the heroic epic (got metal casting for my free tech), but Im doing much better and slowly adding more vassals to my empire.

Switching to nationhood asap is turning out to be huge too, even with number 1 production I cant out produce the ai without the draft.

I like playing as Elizabeth of Japan...financial, philosophic with samuari badasses.

Cottages and financial are both overpowered (seperately or together) and even more so for the ai.
 
Question for karadoc: I'm finding that Macemen aren't getting the Guerilla I promotion from the Dun. I thought this was just because they're not usually eligible for Geurilla I, but according to this, the Dun should enable this promotion for other melee units. I'm not absolutely sure what happens in vanilla BTS, but was this a nerf you added? I can't find mention of it in the changelog.
I haven't changed that. As far as I know, Dun have never given Guerilla I to melee units, just as the Red Cross national wonder doesn't give Medic I to units who can't usually get Medic I (eg. Tanks). So I reckon that wiki information is wrong.

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The AI does trade with other AI's quite a lot; but whether or not it is 'too much' is a matter of perspective. A rough way to get an estimate on how much the AI is trading is to just accept every trade deal that the AI offers you - that's roughly how often they'll be trading with one another.

The 'too advanced' trade refusal rule which stops players from trading too much applies to the AI just as it applies to human players - so I think it's probably fair.

As for Nationhood - it is indeed very powerful, but only at particular parts of the game.
The way the draft population cost is calculated makes it so that drafting riflemen is excellent value whereas drafting infantry or mech infantry is generally poor value. I don't know if that was a deliberate part of the game design (I'm guessing that it probably wasn't), but I like that it works that way. But one thing you might find interesting is that on high difficulty levels, the AI can actually draft infantry for 1 population. And so for the AI, infantry are the sweet-spot for drafting rather than riflemen. (This isn't because of any special drafting mechanics. It is just a direct result of the production discount that the AI gets on high difficulty levels. The AI gets a discount on the :hammers: cost, and that discount is enough to drop infantry below the threshold for 1 pop drafting. The K-Mod AI has some understanding of the significance of this, whereas the original BtS AI completely ignored it.)
 
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