K-Mod: Far Beyond the Sword

I havent played civ4 in years until I saw this ai mod. Since then Im very excited, since I consider myself a bit of a pro and lost the first 5 or 6 games I played with this ai mod. Really had to step up my game.

That said, my last game was a bit disappointing at the latest part... I stopped taking Mongols cities that were farther away and ended up taking 3 level 13 or above Pacal (mayans? i believe) cities. They had about 4 or 5 rifles max per city.

The mayans have a massive economy, cannons I still havent gotten to, but not one mined hill, or irrigated plains...they have only got one cannion in 12+ turns of getting steel, and suicided it on a 2 unit stack I had coming to reinforce a city seige I had set up (killed a cat on offense and a knight on defense, not too bad).

I have a heavy espionage bonus on them, so I can see what they are building....oxford university...leveee...fishing boats...and only like 2 or 3 cities making riflemen. But they dont have much for production anyway.

Many of their other cities have a much poorer cultural defense than the Mongols had AND only 3 or 4 riflemen per city (3 only in their capital)...I wanted to make peace 3 or 4 turns ago, but I might as well take as much easy land as possible.

If stalin or gilgamesh get involved, it might be an insta loss for me. They have 2 or 3 times Pacals or mine's power rating and about the same tech level or better.

Only thing the those other evil ais have done all game is kill the native americans into vassalage.

Side note: Never really got custom houses much before, may consider rushing them earlier next game. 100% trade route yield, on top of free market or castles +1 trade route, and/or great lighthouse sounds pretty sexy.
 
Still no multiplayer visibility. We got latest civ 4 bts patch ofc. Direct ip method makes us go OOS as soon as i start the game. He has civ 4 complete, and i got normal civ 4 with all the expansions. Any thoughts?
 
Another thing: in advanced scoreboard is missing the help text that tell to insert "P" to show military power ratio as in "normal" BUG mod.

Is by design or is a bug?

I started a game at normal speed / Noble / Hemispheres and even if I am still in 200 BC I feel the AI different: better exploration, better city placement.:goodjob:

Obviously I aspect to view research path, building decisions and war!

I have read changelogs about culture system for plot: seems better. I want to view a "clash" of borders or a cultural bomb.
 
En_dotter,

Try deleting the k mod directory on both computers, then reinstalling a new fresh k mod in the beyond the sword mods directory on both computers (theres vanilla civ4, civ4 warlords, and civ4 beyond the sword). Mod must be in the same Beyond the sword sub folder.

If that doesnt work, I'd try reinstalling civ4 and the expansions and when reinstalling making sure the versions are the same (there is still an option that says update from the main menu).

Does one person have the steam version of civ4 and the other person doesnt?

The only thing else I can thing of is, are you guys playing with the same language pack civ4?

Im not sure if that would cause an OOS error, but maybe.

Edit:
I think I remember trying to play with a guy who had civ4 complete and never saw him in multiplayer either...although he was able to play with other people with civ4 complete...try both logging into multiplayer and seeing if the list of games up matches for both of you.


Good luck.

Edit: Craving updates :D kekekeke
 
Some question: when you included and modded BUG and BBAI do you used respectively version 4.5 for BUG mod and 1.02a for BBAI?

...

Helicopters should have Amphiouos promotion by default. Why helicopters should be penalized by crossing rivers when attacking?

Why in changelog of version 1.00 "The AI will now send spies to destroy improvments only when at war"? If I target an enemy, I send spies to destroy improvment over happiness or strategic bonuses or to interrupt irrigation chain.
I don't remember which version I used. Sorry. They were the latest versions at the time I started the mod, that's all I know. In any case, the BBAI stuff has been very much displaced by my own changes. I don't think it really matters what version of BBAI it was anymore, because the bulk of the AI is now my own.

Regarding Helicopters. I agree. They should have the river penalty. I made that change as soon as I saw your post. (Actually, I gave the free promotion to "gunships", which are the only type of helicopter currently in the game. I was a bit disappointed that I couldn't find an easy way to actually give the promotion to helicopters, but this doesn't make any difference unless someone decides to add new helicopter units.)

Regarding the spies targeting improvements. The reason I told the AI to only target improvements when at war is that usually it's just not a problem when an improvement is destroyed in peace-time. It's easy to send a bunch of workers to get the improvement back up in just a turn or two, and I so I think the espionage points are more or less wasted, and the spy could have been doing something better. I agree that sometimes it is smart to target improvements even in peace time, but unfortunately the AI isn't smart enough to recognise when it should do that.
When at war, it's a bit different - mostly because it's often not save to have workers trying to fix improvements on the frontline; but also because even just a turn or two without access to your iron / oil / ... can be very painful. So I figure that at war it is probably worth doing, but at peace time it probably is not. I might change it again if I can come up with a way to teach the AI when it is a good idea to do it in peace time.

The AI cheating, obviously is unfair...however...since the AI is so much worse at playing the game with less ability to think "outside the box" like a human can - do you think removing "cheats" that the AI can use is for the better? Sometimes i feel the AI needs all the help it can get. Bugfixes are a MAJOR plus that you are contributing :goodjob: What are your thoughts, though, in terms of removing these cheats and making the AI weaker because of it?
The AI probably does need all the help it can get. I don't expect that I'll ever be able to write AI that plays better than I do. The AI has the advantage of being able to calculate precise numbers for pretty much everything whenever it makes a decision; but I have the advantage of knowing how the AI will behave - and so I know its weaknesses. -- Anyway, the main reason I want to remove some of the AI's cheats is that I feel like it opens up new possible avenues for human strategies. For example, I might want to use a strategy where I don't let the AI see where my forces are, - so that I can trick the AI into walking into a trap where I can wipe out its stack. That seems like a legitimate strategy, and possibly a clever and fun strategy; but as long as the AI is cheating by always knowing where my troops are, the strategy is impossible - and I think that's unfortunate.

I want the AI to be playing by the same rules that the humans have to play by; so that us as players can build our strategies based on the game mechanics that we play by, rather than basing our strategies around some special rules that the AI plays by. I just think it is a bit more fun and intuitive if the AI can fall for the same kinds of tricks that I myself would fall for. Sometimes the best way to beat the AI is to exploit their cheats... and I don't think that's the way the game should be. (For example, you can steer the original AI to particular places by positioning your own units. Even if the AI can't see your land, they still knew to avoid your units on the hills etc... so you could essentially choose where the AI would attack you - and then crush them when they got there.)

So, I have taken away some of the AI's cheating ability in a few places - but only in places where I think I can make the AI still play well enough without its cheats. ie. I've removed the cheats in places where I think it doesn't really need them anymore. Apparently, I sometimes I misjudge whether or not the AI needs the cheats or not, as we saw with that chokepoint confusion bug. That was my fault. I would have fixed that by giving them their cheat back if I had to, but I'd always prefer to fix the problem with good AI rather than with a cheat.

Regardless - a most amazing and excellent job you are doing. The amount of time spent moving forward with CivIV will be increased by levels of magnitude by many, many people because of this work that you're doing. If you ever set up a pay-pal account, I'd bet you'd find some donations from some of us for all the time you're putting into this (and all the hours of fun and addiction that many, many of us players will benefit because of it) :lol:
I have put a lot of work into this; and I'd certainly be willing to accept money - but on the other hand, I don't really like to feel like I'm doing it for money.. and I don't want people to think they need to pay me to keep modding, or that I would keep modding if they paid me or anything like that. I kind of don't want the experience to be tainted with money. ... I'm a bit weird like that. Maybe later I'll link a paypal account to my github page or something like that, so that people can show their appreciation without it looking like it's connected to the mod.

Still no multiplayer visibility. We got latest civ 4 bts patch ofc. Direct ip method makes us go OOS as soon as i start the game. He has civ 4 complete, and i got normal civ 4 with all the expansions. Any thoughts?
Ok. I do have one more idea. I reckon it's the custom assets folder. ie. I think that either you or your friends have some xml or python files on your custom assets folder which are overruling the assets in K-Mod. The K-Mod.ini has some lines like this:
Code:
; Custom Art from user folder is not loaded
NoCustomArt = 0

; Custom XML and Python from user folder are not loaded
NoCustomAssets = 0
I suggest that you try setting NoCustomAssets = 1, on all the computers that you want to play on.

This problem is a bit of a pest really. I mean, strictly speaking K-Mod.ini really should have NoCustomAssets = 1 anyway; but I like to play with custom art (ie. different tile graphics) and, unfortunately, there seems to be a bug in Civ4 itself which causes the custom art to not load if either NoCustomArt or NoCustomAssets is set to 1. -- so... my guess is that NoCustomAssets = 0 is probably causing problems for you, and probably for some other people in single-players games - but if I set it to 1 then I can't have custom graphics.

-- Like I said. It's a pest. I'm tempted to work around the problem by putting the graphics I like into the mod itself; but I don't really want to force custom graphics onto people. I didn't make the graphics, and they aren't a necessary part of the gameplay. So I don't know if it's really a good idea...

Another thing: in advanced scoreboard is missing the help text that tell to insert "P" to show military power ratio as in "normal" BUG mod.

Is by design or is a bug?
It was by design, in the early days of the mod; but recently I've been thinking about bringing that option back. The only reasons I removed it were that I thought it kind of looked ugly, and that I thought it was kind of bad gameplay to base decisions on that number. I think reducing strategy down to a couple of numbers like that is bad... so I just removed the option completely. ... But understand that it isn't really new information. You can roughly estimate that number from the power graph - (although it's much harder to estimate from the graph than it is to read it off the scoreboard...). I've been rethinking my early decision because recently I've been intending to reimplement a modified version of the BUG military adviser; and on that screen I was going to indicate the relative power like we are talking about. If it's going to be on the military adviser screen.. and if it's kind of indirectly already on the graphs screen... maybe I should just let players have that ugly little symbol on the scoreboard as well, for those who want it. :sad: -- So yeah, in short, it was removed by design, but it's probably going to make a comeback.

On a somewhat related note, I'm intending to remove the option to show the number of cities on the scoreboard. Several version ago, I removed the ability to see the cities on the trade screen (except when the cities actually are available for trade); and so the city count is now only available from that scoreboard option. It's useful information to have, but I feel that it's information that should be gained by scouting etc; rather than given out for free on the scoreboard. .. So I hope no one finds it too upsetting if I remove that option.
 
Ok. I do have one more idea. I reckon it's the custom assets folder. ie. I think that either you or your friends have some xml or python files on your custom assets folder which are overruling the assets in K-Mod. The K-Mod.ini has some lines like this:
Spoiler :
Code:

; Custom Art from user folder is not loaded
NoCustomArt = 0

; Custom XML and Python from user folder are not loaded
NoCustomAssets = 0

I suggest that you try setting NoCustomAssets = 1, on all the computers that you want to play on.

This problem is a bit of a pest really. I mean, strictly speaking K-Mod.ini really should have NoCustomAssets = 1 anyway; but I like to play with custom art (ie. different tile graphics) and, unfortunately, there seems to be a bug in Civ4 itself which causes the custom art to not load if either NoCustomArt or NoCustomAssets is set to 1. -- so... my guess is that NoCustomAssets = 0 is probably causing problems for you, and probably for some other people in single-players games - but if I set it to 1 then I can't have custom graphics.

-- Like I said. It's a pest. I'm tempted to work around the problem by putting the graphics I like into the mod itself; but I don't really want to force custom graphics onto people. I didn't make the graphics, and they aren't a necessary part of the gameplay. So I don't know if it's really a good idea...

It actually worked. I dont know why that could have caused any problems. We never tempered with any of codes. Could it be cus when i reinstalled my system i didnt do the reinstall of the game? Or, since i have some other mods with proper installation programs could have that been the problem?
Anyway it works like a charm! Tnx a lot!
 
I don't remember which version I used. Sorry. They were the latest versions at the time I started the mod, that's all I know. In any case, the BBAI stuff has been very much displaced by my own changes. I don't think it really matters what version of BBAI it was anymore, because the bulk of the AI is now my own.

Regarding Helicopters. I agree. They should have the river penalty. I made that change as soon as I saw your post. (Actually, I gave the free promotion to "gunships", which are the only type of helicopter currently in the game. I was a bit disappointed that I couldn't find an easy way to actually give the promotion to helicopters, but this doesn't make any difference unless someone decides to add new helicopter units.)

Regarding the spies targeting improvements. The reason I told the AI to only target improvements when at war is that usually it's just not a problem when an improvement is destroyed in peace-time. It's easy to send a bunch of workers to get the improvement back up in just a turn or two, and I so I think the espionage points are more or less wasted, and the spy could have been doing something better. I agree that sometimes it is smart to target improvements even in peace time, but unfortunately the AI isn't smart enough to recognise when it should do that.
When at war, it's a bit different - mostly because it's often not save to have workers trying to fix improvements on the frontline; but also because even just a turn or two without access to your iron / oil / ... can be very painful. So I figure that at war it is probably worth doing, but at peace time it probably is not. I might change it again if I can come up with a way to teach the AI when it is a good idea to do it in peace time.

_CUT_

It was by design, in the early days of the mod; but recently I've been thinking about bringing that option back. The only reasons I removed it were that I thought it kind of looked ugly, and that I thought it was kind of bad gameplay to base decisions on that number. I think reducing strategy down to a couple of numbers like that is bad... so I just removed the option completely. ... But understand that it isn't really new information. You can roughly estimate that number from the power graph - (although it's much harder to estimate from the graph than it is to read it off the scoreboard...). I've been rethinking my early decision because recently I've been intending to reimplement a modified version of the BUG military adviser; and on that screen I was going to indicate the relative power like we are talking about. If it's going to be on the military adviser screen.. and if it's kind of indirectly already on the graphs screen... maybe I should just let players have that ugly little symbol on the scoreboard as well, for those who want it. :sad: -- So yeah, in short, it was removed by design, but it's probably going to make a comeback.

On a somewhat related note, I'm intending to remove the option to show the number of cities on the scoreboard. Several version ago, I removed the ability to see the cities on the trade screen (except when the cities actually are available for trade); and so the city count is now only available from that scoreboard option. It's useful information to have, but I feel that it's information that should be gained by scouting etc; rather than given out for free on the scoreboard. .. So I hope no one finds it too upsetting if I remove that option.


Regarding BUG mod, the version 4.5 indroduced the stockpile icon for promotions when player selected a stack. (only a graphic enhancement)

Regarding AI spies don't destroy improvements in peace time, I agree with your explaination.

Regarding Military Power Ratio in scoreboard I don't think that this is strategy simplification. It serve to get a general idea. In fact I always check Military Advisor too and even troop distribution in every city/fort.

But Military Power Ratio in scoreboard allows a rapid eagle-eye if I must build more troops or I must fear an attack:eek:.

I hope that I explained well the concept above.

However inserting "P" manually restore the Military Power Ratio in scoreboard.

Regarding number of cities on the scoreboard, I always disable it on BUG mod and also the notification when an AI create a city. I feel as I "cheating".
 
If I were to merge this into my mod/merge my mod into this, are there any things I should look out for so the mod doesn't crash, I've noticed the BBAI victory weights for the leaderheadinfos, but that's all the looking I've done so far. Where is your spiffy AI located?
 
Hi Karadoc,

I'm playing with 107b...

...I feel that there is a too fast religion spreading.

I'm USA, my neighbour is Darius. He founded Judaism and pick it as his state religion.
After 2-3 turns Judaism arrived with trade route in my border city (950 BC turn 77).
After other few turns Judaism was spreaded by trade route to other 2 my cities (650 BC turn 89). After other 3 turns arrived in my forth city! (575 BC turn 92) Seems too fast! No necessity of missionaires.

I attached the save.

Game is Normal speed / standard size (7 civilization) / hemispheres (3 landmass) / Noble level

Another thing: I know that Italian translation is not a your priority. However I have
attached a zip file that contain the XML text files with Italian translation for Kmod
107b, including your Hints. If you would add it, thanks.

PS: Bug mod 4.5, as I say in my previosus post added the ability to show stack
promotions. If you would add...
 

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It actually worked. I dont know why that could have caused any problems. We never tempered with any of codes. Could it be cus when i reinstalled my system i didnt do the reinstall of the game? Or, since i have some other mods with proper installation programs could have that been the problem?
Anyway it works like a charm! Tnx a lot!
My guess is that the problem was caused by BUG mod being installed into the custom assets folder on one of the computers; or something like that. In any case, I'm glad you reported the issue, otherwise I wouldn't have known that problem existed.

I've just uploaded version 1.08; and I've changed the K-Mod.ini to have 'NoCustomAssets = 1', so that other people don't have this same problem.

Unfortunately, as I mentioned this has the side effect of disabling custom graphics packs. I personally much prefer to play with the Blue Marble tileset, so I've prepared a pack-file of the Blue Marble graphics that I use. I've attached the file to this post. If you want to use these graphics, unzip the attached file ("BM tiles.FPK") into the K-Mod\Assets folder. That's all you need to do.

I've done a quick test to confirm that multiplayer games still work regardless of whether anyone (or everyone) is using the graphics pack, so it shouldn't be a problem.

Anyway. Version 1.08 is up. The main feature is that it includes my first attempt of giving the AI some basic tactical memory (as I mentioned in an earlier post). I don't expect that this AI will be significantly stronger. But I do expect that it will stop the AI from being confused by well defended choke-points. I just hope there aren't any problem which cause the AI to actually play worse than before.

If I were to merge this into my mod/merge my mod into this, are there any things I should look out for so the mod doesn't crash, I've noticed the BBAI victory weights for the leaderheadinfos, but that's all the looking I've done so far. Where is your spiffy AI located?
The AI changes are basically all through the dll. K-Mod includes lots of changes in the dll, and many of the changes are interrelated. I don't think it would be easy to just extract the AI on its own. Unless your mod also includes a huge number of dll changes, I'd suggest you just use the K-Mod dll.

[edit]
Axios. I just saw your post. Thanks for the translation. I'll probably put that into the next version. :) .. (That reminds me.. there are still some parts of the environmental adviser screen which aren't using xml text keys... I should fix that too.)

I'll check out the BUG thing as well.

Thanks for the feedback about the religion spreading. It's hard to say for sure if it is really too fast or not based on just a couple of games. Sometimes luck goes one way, sometimes another. There are a lot of different things which affect the probability of spread.

I'll definitely be looking to tweak and balance the religion stuff a bit further, so I encourage people to give me more feedback on that. :) I'll look at that save file.
 

Attachments

Well, almost every file in the assets folder included in K-Mod does something... so if you just use the dll then it won't be the entire mod. -- and there are some other things that need to be included in the xml for it to work at all. I don't have a comprehensive list, but I remember there are a heap of new xml entries in GlobalDefinesAlt.xml and PythonCallbackDefines.xml.. and there are some new fields in some of the other xml files as well. For example, buildings use to have a field called "bNoPopulationUnhealthiness", or something like that - I've replaced that with "iUnhealthyPopulationModifier". .. and so because of that, there are changes in CIV4BuildingsSchema.xml and CIV4BuildingsInfos.xml that are important. There are probably a few other things as well. -- I'd suggest just trying to play a game with a debug version of the dll, and it will tell you whenever something goes wrong - and so then you'll know to fix it.
 
-CUT-
Axios. I just saw your post. Thanks for the translation. I'll probably put that into the next version. :) .. (That reminds me.. there are still some parts of the environmental adviser screen which aren't using xml text keys... I should fix that too.)

I'll check out the BUG thing as well.

Thanks for the feedback about the religion spreading. It's hard to say for sure if it is really too fast or not based on just a couple of games. Sometimes luck goes one way, sometimes another. There are a lot of different things which affect the probability of spread.

I'll definitely be looking to tweak and balance the religion stuff a bit further, so I encourage people to give me more feedback on that. :) I'll look at that save file.

Thanks for the reply. I haven't see the 108! Now I download it.

Regarding religion spreading, in my point of view, in this game I avoided to build 2-3 missionaries and this is a great saving of production but could make it useless to produce missionaries. Obviously we should consider many more games to be sure of this.

In 108 have you made changes at text files or I can import the 107b that I translated?
 
I wish I knew how to Mod. I would Really love to Merge your Mod with Rise of Mankind 1.03.

Your AI upgrades added to Basic RoM's expanded tech tree/buildings/units would make for a Fun time!

You're doing Great work here karadoc. Please keep it coming.

JosEPh :)
 
Hi Karadoc,

Other things regarding my game on normal speed, noble, 7 player, hemispheres:

-barb city plecament: very well! They settled in a tile than even I will use for settling a city

-barb worker in a forested hill defended by an archer and on al grassland plain by a warrior. Very well.

-barb city produced a mini stack to attack a my city: 2 warriors and a archer. Well.

Maybe questionable: regarding Darius he have tech lead but he have only four cities. No iron, copper or horse. Only ivory. He is sorrounded by me and Charlemagne, however instead of produce more troops or produce research to beeline construction and horseback riding, he build Apostolic Palace and a spy in a city taha take 16 turns to make that spy.

The point is that Darius haven't chop many forests and jungles so he have few tiles improved.

In addition, I don't know if is easy or even only possible to realize, it would be amazing if an AI can understand to chop as soon as possible (according to production's boost needed) to chop all forests and jungles in the 8 tiles around cities to prevent enemy stack to gain protection from forests/jungles.

In few words: Darius, not sufficient jungle / forest chopping -> not sufficient improvements, lack of military power -> choked between me and Charlemagne.

Instead Charlemagne who is surrounded by water, desert tiles, builded a stack with 4-5 swords, 3-4 axeman and 2-3 archer (to protect stack in forest) and attacked Darius. The only thing is that Darius cities have 40% and plus of defense, so without siege weapons (catapults), very few chance for Charlemagne to take the cities.

However Charlemagne improved his own tiles very well.

I think that if these behaviours are confirmed and not casual, these are few minor balancing issues, however from BBAI the IA is more challenging. Less tech predictable and more smart.
 

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Ok. Thanks.

But rather than making all of the AIs chop things faster, I think I might make it flavour based. The current AI will chop for the production boost if it is planning a "dagger" war, or if it is trying to build a wonder - but otherwise it will only chop if it wants to build a better improvement on that tile. - I think that's a pretty sensible strategy a lot of the time; but I think this would be a good thing to be based on AI personality.

I don't want to make all of the AIs do the "best" strategy all of the time - because that will make them predictable and less varied. I like when different AIs behave in different ways based on their personalities; and I think tendency to chop could to base on personality.

That reminds me... for a couple of versions now I've been intending to make some AI personalities favour productivity improvements a bit more than they do now -- so that not everything has towns and windmills built on all their hills! :p I should get onto that.

As for building the Apostolic Palace.. That wouldn't have really been a conscious strategy decision for poor old Darius. They currently choose to build wonders more or less at random, just based on how productive their cities are and stuff like that. I guess he just got unlucky. :( Building the spy in that low-productivity city sounds pretty stupid though, I should try to fix that.

--

Here's a little update on my progress for the next version: I've fixed an old bug in sea-patrol which sometimes caused the game to hang - particularly in simultaneous turns games. I've changed the paradrop command so that units will stay grouped. This means that you can paradrop a bunch of units at once, rather than having to press 'p' + click, 'p' + click, 'p' + click, ... . It really is much better now. And I've added Axios' Italian translations. (thanks.)
 
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