K-mod vs BAT?

[Lemon Merchant]

I'd like to get BAT to work, but I can't.

Why can't you get BAT to work? Maybe I can help...

 

[Noble Zarkon]

Not sure how K-mod can be described as minor in scope, when it changes gameplay rather considerably.

I agree and I'm a BUFFY man as well because virtually all of my games are in competitive play.

 

[Yin Cognito]

K-Mod for me. I looked for a mod that changed very little from the original BTS, very light, and that had a goal in improving some of the things that could be improved from the game (aka the AI). For me, this mod looked more like an "upgrade" to the original game, sort of like the patches are - the only difference was that it was "patching" the AI, in a way...

Had it not been for K-Mod however, I would have chosen some of the BAT/BUG/BULL, since, to a point, they are similar in some aspects, and enhance the gameplay experience while providing useful info to the human playing.

 

[devolution]

Huge K-Mod fan here. As for Better AI, while it did improve the combat AI by a fair margin, it introduced a number of new issues. Better AI generally caused the AI to overbuild units and to fall behind economically. Ironically, this actually made the game a bit easier for more peaceful strategies if you could keep out of the frequent AI wars. As the game dragged on, a peaceful player would see himself being economically significantly ahead after the midgame.

Better AI did little to fix the core issues that were plaguing BTS (and all previous versions) which primarily were caused by the the poor management of the economy (in particular, in BTS the city AI was bad, the AI evaulations were far too simple and would often decide on the wrong building/civic etc.) Just look at the archive of funny screenshot and reports of AI blunders to get an idea of what I am talking about.

I have been spending some time now by comparing the difference in cvCityAI.cpp (the city AI) in both BTS,Better AI and K-Mod and it is obvious that K-Mod is far more sophisticated when in regards to the AI evaluation of tile yields, civic value, what to build etc. The K-Mod AI can even whip\chop micro, which is a far cry from BTS(and even Better AI). I can't even remotely see that there is any comparison. K-Mod is simply vastly superior for both combat and economy. To close off, I want to say that the K-Mod AI has unfairly been written off as being too aggressive, but it generally retains the flavor and sandbox "feel" of BTS and is capable of pursuing peaceful options (like an isolated island start would cause it to build far fewer units and to prioritize optics/astronomy)

 

[Noble Zarkon]

To close off I want to say that the K-Mod AI has unfairly written off as being too aggressive, but it generally retains the flavor and sandbox "feel" of BTS

I don't agree that it was unfair - when you are being Archer rushed by Gandhi you know you are not playing BTS lol. Karadoc has done an amazing job, especially with AI, but his background is in multi-player and it shines through many of the changes he has made.

 

[unas876]

Why can't you get BAT to work? Maybe I can help...

Well I downloaded the installer a while back. I have BUG installed already (didn't get BULL to work either). So I don't know if maybe I need to uninstall that first.
Then I have the Steam version of Civ4 (don't know if that might be a problem). I also have a completely new Windows profile just to play Civ4 on (thats a pain in the backside on its own already, can't just hop in and play a few turns because bugs in my laptop force me to restart the whole system every time I switch to a different profile...) because I originally had an umlaut in my Windows profile which messed everything up when I installed BUG for the first time (it makes a bunch of icons disappear, not sure if thats the case with BAT as well) and you can't really fix that.
On top of that I don't have my Steam stuff in the original place that it suggests when you install it. I had to put it all on a second hard drive because the original one is too small for all my games. I don't know what that messes up.

Anyway, it makes it so that when I execute the installer pretty much nothing happens and I'm an incredible noob with anything in terms of computers, which is probably why I can't even figure out the problem, let alone fix it.

 

[lymond]

Not sure what's about with BUG/BULL una, other than maybe you are not installing it in the right place...BULL needs to be copied over in the correct folders (instructions are included in a txt tile) and the DDL placed in the regular BTS Assets folder.

As for BAT, you need to direct the installer to your BTS mods folder. There's an option to do that first thing after you click the executable. Run the executable as administrator as well (right click file>properties>compatibility tab>checkbox) So first check the navigation in win explorer to your BTS directory and then use that as a guide to directing the install to the BTS>mods folder.

BAT will work with the Steam version. I use it myself on one of my machines.

 

[unas876]

Thanks, but no es bueno

I follow the BULL instructions, unzipping the folder into the correct folder in my BtS and I change the game.dll, and exactly nothing happens. Its not even like the game is broken then, just nothing changes. The BUG options still say for half the stuff that I need BULL.

Same thing with BAT, whether I follow the instructions to install it as a mod or general: nothing is changing and I can't load it as a mod. I have absolutely no clue what I'm doing wrong.

 

[devolution]

unas876: The following thread has a lot of information concerning mod installation: http://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthread.php?tid=6866
The instructions are for a different mod, but this should work regardless.

 

[TheNoseKnows]

One would think that those two mods go together like chocolate and peanuts, but apparently there is to this day not a real ultimate version of BTS that combines both. How come?

I've asked myself that question, as I regard a combination of both as the ultimate BtS mod. BAT contains the sum total of some of the community's best graphics mods (mainly units and buildings), while K-mod offers the least stupid AI and most up-to-date game balancing. I have never played against the vanilla BtS AI before, but I did watch some videos of a game being played on Emperor difficulty and was shocked to see the AI struggling with basic things like city sieges, both on the offence and defence, worker management and specialist assignment (things that jdog5000's Better AI or K-mod would have no troubles with).

Since no mod that combines the two exists, I have compromised by playing Better BAT AI, which combines BAT with Better AI. Better AI, however, is only better, not the best. Also, for some reason, K-mod doesn't use the latest version of BUG, which further pushed me towards Better BAT AI. Basically, I decided that much more immersive graphics (where units, cities, and certain improvements look like they belong to their parent civilization) and a slightly better user interface were more important to me than a moderately better AI.

 

[ztrapon]

To close off, I want to say that the K-Mod AI has unfairly been written off as being too aggressive, but it generally retains the flavor and sandbox "feel" of BTS and is capable of pursuing peaceful options (like an isolated island start would cause it to build far fewer units and to prioritize optics/astronomy)

Agree. After hours of both vanilla, BTS and K-Mod -- I feel like K-Mod AI is not necessarily more aggressive, it's only more inclined to play for its own good in any given case - even if it means war. For example betraying allies, dogpiling or just rushing weak opponents early. I've had Mansa Musa skirmisher rushing me at Pleased just cause he saw an opportunity, something that would never occur with the tranquilized AI's of vanilla BTS.

 

[Windsor]

I feel like K-Mod AI is not necessarily more aggressive, it's only more inclined to play for its own good in any given case - even if it means war. For example betraying allies, dogpiling or just rushing weak opponents early. I've had Mansa Musa skirmisher rushing me at Pleased just cause he saw an opportunity, something that would never occur with the tranquilized AI's of vanilla BTS.

Isn't that pretty much the definition of being more aggressive? Not that I complain. In vanilla BTS it's without a doubt too easy to avoid wars.

In vanilla BTS playing peacefully just means you need to be slightly aware of diplomacy. In Kmod you need diplomacy and a decent army (unless you really manage to get on good terms with the AI).

However the AI is actually a bit too aggressive. Not in its willingness to declare wars, but to continue them. If the initial assault fails they just keep churning out units with no regards to techpace. It would be really nice if they were better at evaluating if they manage to achieve something or not. Very often both sides involved in a war ends up losing.

It's not uncommon to see a tech situation like this (Immortal level), and this is usually due to way too lengthy wars:

Spoiler :

 

[rah]

Since no mod that combines the two exists, I have compromised by playing Better BAT AI, which combines BAT with Better AI. Better AI, however, is only better, not the best. Also, for some reason, K-mod doesn't use the latest version of BUG, which further pushed me towards Better BAT AI. Basically, I decided that much more immersive graphics (where units, cities, and certain improvements look like they belong to their parent civilization) and a slightly better user interface were more important to me than a moderately better AI.

This sums it up for me.

 

[ztrapon]

Isn't that pretty much the definition of being more aggressive? Not that I complain. In vanilla BTS it's without a doubt too easy to avoid wars.

Hmm I don't think so. Aggressive is when the AI pursues and aims for war. What I meant is the AI puts its own interest first (like a human player) and seizes opportunities if they are blatantly obvious, even if it means using force. In real life grand strategy, there's never been opting out of military and there's always been preying on the weak, which is why I prefer civ that way. Too tranquil and lack of aggression means a huge aspect of "geopolitics" or whatever Civ is about, is lost.