Keeping it simple, and learning

stwils

Emperor
Joined
Apr 5, 2001
Messages
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I thought if I could limit my game by using just one city I might get a better understanding of the mechanics of Civ 2.

Even the tutorial branches right out to the second city - before I grasp all of the things I need to do to keep one city going.

How do I set this up? And is there any wisdom in this? I am more interested in learning the basics right now than winning.

Thanks.
stwils
 
There is such a thing as the One City Challenge (OCC). Details can be found on this and the Strategy and Tips fora. However, this is an advanced strategy. If you are learning, then you won't get all the mechanics of the game from this. The best way to learn is to have more than one city, so that you can see how they interact. If you try to keep to one city, then you will learn strategies which won't work in the full game. If anything, having several cities makes it easier to learn, because each will be a bit different, so you can see which tactics to use in different situations, but all in the same game.

But the best way to learn how to play the game is to read this site
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Have you checked out the War Academy yet?
 
stwils -

My advice is just to play the game, and work out your own strategies.

Supernaut is right - this website has a lot of great references to read; print 'em all out and read 'em. You'll learn a lot from them. However, as you'll see by reading, there isn't just one way, any one strategy, that will guaranty success. You've got to dive into Civ yourself and find what works for you. Don't concentrate on winning at first, just pay attention to how things work, what relationships you'll have to manage, etc. And have fun!

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"...über den Bergen sind auch Leute..."
 
I printed out the OCC strategy. And I am trying to play it. But right off it calls for building Colossus. 61 turns!

And I guess I have to wait 61 turns before I can build anything else. There is so much I don't seem have an understanding of. Even with the manual and strat book.

I loved seeing a different map and playing Babylonian. It was a lot more fun than the tutorial game which I play over and over and still feel like I don't "have it" yet.

I feel like I'm not really making progress. But I want to learn to like this game. But the OCC strategy is for someone who can read between the lines and know what to do. I am not that person yet.

stwils
 
stwils, I personally would not recommend you begin learning Civ II by playing OCC. The game has many aspects that are radically different if you do this, and you will only remain frustrated when you eventually play a "normal" game. Happiness, prioritizing, exploration, diplomacy... and much much more are fun, yet often frustrating, as you build, expand, conquer, etc.

OCC is a great concept to try when you are used to the normal flow and feel of the game, however.

About your specific comment regarding the 61 turns and Colossus... you are already bumping into the limitations I was trying to point out. However, no it will not take 61 turns to build, as your city will grow and you would likely rush build part of it anyway.

You had a good plan originally... stick to the basics and don't worry about winning at first.
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By Supernaut:

But the best way to learn how to play the game is to read this site Have you checked out the War Academy yet?

I have seen people reference the War Academy before, but not located it. Where is it?
 
starlifter,

You are right. And I see for myself that OCC games are not the way for me to learn Civ2 - certainly not now.

I just want to keep it simple. And learn step by step. I don't care about winning.

For me, "winning" would be getting a handle on the game so that I can "take off!"

stwils
 
I think the best way to learn is trial and error. Forget the tutorial. The way I learned was to start on cheftain level and just play. Once you have played one game at cheftain to get a feel for the progression of the game. Move up to a game at the warlord or prince level. This will force you to learn what mistakes are costly and what strategies might work for you. Once you are able to win at prince level, keep stepping it up a notch.
 
I also beleive that the best way is trial and error. I started playing this game about 3 years ago and i never have even looked at the manuals i learned by playing the game this may not be the best way for everyone to learn the basics of the game but it worked for me.
 
I would build 2 cities cause alot of things in civ2 need 2 cities
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Civilization God of War & Economic Prosperity
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I first started playing Civ I and I thought it was great. I loved the idea of sending out settlers to form new cities and of my knights going out and conquering the lands, but I had no idea how to truly play the game. I knew what the sheilds stood for, production, and the light bulbs, science, but I had no idea what the trade arrows where and that they directly effected science and taxes. This led me to play my games on chieftan/warlord and when Civ 2 came out that's what I played on. When I played on Warlord I noticed switching production types cut my production up to that type in half which greatly upset me so I stuck to playing chieftan. This mistake has cost me any useful skill I would have at this game. If you play a few games on cheiftan fine, but make sure to move up a level or two early and avoid my fate. Remember it's better to lose and learn something then crush your opponents repeatedly with the same boring attack.

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I'm trying to set some small goals for myself, learn to reach those, then try for more.

Any suggestions about which short term goals you tried helped you learn?

I first started by trying to reach Monarchy by 2850BC. Then trying to build 4 cities by 3000 BC. (Haven't been able to do this last one yet.) But at least this introduces me to things that seem meaningful for the game.

I have so much to learn. But at least I don't seem to be floundering in a vast sea with no purpose.

Your ideas would be welcomed.

stwils
 
In retrospect, I'd have learned to play a little differently than I did. As an impatient type, jumped right in after a swift look at the tutorial. After playing and eventually winning some close (LOL!) games with absolutely no real regard nor even understanding beyond brute-force military, I jumped right into Deity games. Early on, looking back in retrospect, I had a way of making a game needlessly close without knowing why.

My understanding of government types and trade were the most glaring errors, primarily brought on by myopic vision about production at the moment. Since I valued producing things above all else (mainly for battle), I never even considered science advancement as a means to have a big jump several hundred years down the road. It was always 'lets get by at the moment', and figure the rest later.

Until very recently, I even poopooed Democracy and Republic, especially when fighting a major war, mainly because of those 'stupid' trade arrows that you get instead of free-support and more shields.

Also, failure to understand gov't types and relative civ sizes cause me to delay transitions too long.

Eventually, I set a few goals, like achieve a good stable democracy by 1900, then by 1776. Now it's a lot earlier.

One of my personal recent refinements has been to transition to Republic as soon as possible, and make it work.

Another series of goals was achieving at sustained advancements every game turn, sooner and sooner in the game. Game conditions can naturally influence that dramatically, but preparing for and sustaining large sealifts of caravans before RR, esp. in hostile waters, is a challenge.

At one time, I even poo-pooed the idea of what I see people call the Super Science City (SSC) concept. Getting trade routes and pumping that SSC up was a defining goal at one point... and overcoming my reluctance to build the Colossus. Shoot, even getting over my short-sighted tightwaddedness to rush-buy one of those 'worthless' universities in my SSC was a hurdle until I played the OCC concept.

Once I saw how easy the AI got advances from the Great Library, the GL became essential early on. Not until relatively recently have I discovered it is not the make-or-break wonder I used to assume. With large Republican cities and caravans, the GL is now nothing more than an idle curiosity to build if I have piles of extra caravans.

And one of my final goals/developments was (and still is) in giving the enemy knowledge that will accelerate my tech development, but not hurt me by allowing the enemy to close a gap too rapidly.

Specific Suggestions Summary:

1. Governments. Understand and experiment, and know how to transistion and exploit each, including happiness control. Try having a revolution at different points… and when you come out of anarchy, you can re-select any available form of gov't as often as you want on that same turn. See what the net-effect on science, taxes, and happiness is under Monarchy, Republic, Communism, Fundamentalism, and even Democracy. It will take some experience to get a good feel of which type is best in a given situation, and often there is no 'absolute' right answer.

2. Learn an use the SSC, and supporting cities for the SSC (eg, caravans/freight for trade/wonder building). The SSC is overwhelmingly powerful if you pick the right city location and govern in Republic/Democracy. This will offset the huge advantage the AI has on the human at deity level.

3. Understand happiness, and how to deal with those issues (assuming deity now)… luxuries rate, elvis, multiple scientists/taxmen, government type, city improvements, wonders (MC & JSB, but also Colossus & trade in Republic/Democracy). Learn to fight with minimal forces, and using maneuver.

4. Understand trade: trade route value, trade bonuses, effect on happiness (Republic/Democracy mainly), effect on science (esp. Fundamentalism). Know how to maximize the economic power of your empire in any given gov't… e.g., when/how to grow… as well as what is needed to keep growth going, and why it stops during different phases. Understanding the 'real' effects of city improvements on happiness computations is important for deciding what to build and when.

5. Do without the Great Library… concentrate on SSC… how to make it pump out more science… plus dips to steal tech gaps, and/or Marco Polo (or embassies) to trade for tech gaps.

6. Play offensively… press expansion and hut-popping early on. Get writing and use Dips to get units and defend sprawling cities from those Raging Hordes. Make it a point to maneuver and bribe barbs near AI cities so you get "Nones". Actively hunt for barbs on land, sea, and in enemy territory. Pick off barbs along the coasts with dips & ships. Be sure to play Raging Hordes so you get 150 gold for barb leader kills… this will usually self-fund a bribed-barb army, or at least partially fund it. Be sure and get Leonardo's Workshop for upgrades, and SunTzu's for easy vet status.

7. Read the guides of others. I never knew sites like this existed on the Internet at first, and those guides will doubtless accelerate your learning curve. Some of those guides would have helped me a lot, and now I'm still learning new approaches from the experts.

8. Don't be afraid of playing at Deity level when you understand governments and happiness fairly well. In the end, human intellect is the overwhelming and deciding factor, and even deity advantages begin to seem inadequate for the poor AI.

9. Play games when you never break a treaty (record is 'spotless'). As I realized the shortcomings of the AI a long time ago, I began playing that way (a voluntary advantage for the AI) and now I sometimes read about things that give others fits that are simply never issues for me (in terms of sneak attacks, diplomacy, etc).
 
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