Keeping Jungle when improving resource tiles with plantation

[Crimson13]

Apparently when improving a resource on a jungle tile with the plantation it removes the jungle. In CEP you could keep the jungle when improving a jungle tile with a resource, although it seemed like this was more for the food resources (Bananas and Citrus I think.). I asked Gazebo and he said with the Community Patch all plantations remove jungle now. With the inclusion of Cocoa I was wondering if anyone liked the idea that some plantations keep the jungle tile.

Bananas, Citrus, and Cocoa seem to be the main contenders for keeping the jungle while getting the resource to me as they're more food orientated, although I could see spices being included. The resources that require the plantation improvement that show up in jungle tiles are Bananas, Citrus, Cocoa, Dyes, and Spices. The way it is it's more of a penalty to improve jungle tiles, it feels like that's a step backward considering you want to get resources and improve your tiles.

Anyone agree or have thoughts?

 

[WileyNg]

I think it's not so much a step back backward than it is a conscious choice. Keeping the Jungle tiles has a science boost while replacing it can grant you extra food. But you cannot have both.

It is these kind of choices throughout the entire game that makes me love civ 5 so much. The moment you have too much of everything is when the game starts to lose fun.

 

[Crimson13]

A fair point, but this is for resources not just a tile improvement. I understand some forest/jungle removes for things like mines for iron/coal/uranium but I think that every single jungle resource requires that the jungle be removed. Even forest has some resources that keep, camps being that comes to my head. Improving a resource should be a good thing since they're special.

 

[Funak]

I love jungleplantations.

 

[Crimson13]

I love jungleplantations.

So you approve of keeping the jungle when building plantations Funak or ?

 

[Funak]

So you approve of keeping the jungle when building plantations Funak or ?

Yes that is correct. I think plantations, tradingposts, camps and brazilwood camp can keep the jungle when built.

 

[joosegoose25]

Ah, should have known there was a thread on this.

I like the idea of keeping jungles, but not the implementation. Plantations irl are very much not jungles, and it makes things a bit confusing on the map when some plantations are flat land and others are rough terrain but it isn't easily identifiable.

I'm one that never improves bananas because while the extra food could be worth it, the amount of time it takes to actually chop down the jungle makes it not worth it imo. For realism (admittedly not top priority), jungles should absolutely be cut down for plantations. For balance (always top priority) perhaps the time to remove jungle on plantation resources could be cut in half?

 

[Funak]

Ah, should have known there was a thread on this.

I like the idea of keeping jungles, but not the implementation. Plantations irl are very much not jungles, and it makes things a bit confusing on the map when some plantations are flat land and others are rough terrain but it isn't easily identifiable.

I'm one that never improves bananas because while the extra food could be worth it, the amount of time it takes to actually chop down the jungle makes it not worth it imo. For realism (admittedly not top priority), jungles should absolutely be cut down for plantations. For balance (always top priority) perhaps the time to remove jungle on plantation resources could be cut in half?

It mostly have always come down to it not being worth improving bananas at all in the basegame because you lose the science from the jungle tile, it barely increases yields and it takes forever to build.
Also jungletiles are always on top of plaintiles and plaintiles suck

 

[joosegoose25]

It mostly have always come down to it not being worth improving bananas at all in the basegame because you lose the science from the jungle tile, it barely increases yields and it takes forever to build.
Also jungletiles are always on top of plaintiles and plaintiles suck

Right, actually improving bananas ought to be more appealing than it is in the base game. I'm just not sure leaving the jungle is the best way to do so. Jungles on bananas could be made easier to chop down or the yield from the plantation slightly buffed (maybe we could keep the production from the underlying plains tile?) to encourage improvement of the resource. I can't remember the last time I improved a banana in the base game.

 

[Llednar Twem]

I am strongly in favor of the decision to allow plantations without removing the jungle tile. Not only does it cut out the requirement to learn bronze working in addition to calender, it actually gives jungles an improvement that won't remove them outside of the trading post. This is especially important now that trading posts can't be placed adjacent to one another. If you're any jungle-bias civ not named Brazil, even with this change, you'll still end up with numerous jungle hexes that you'll have to just leave completely unimproved unless you want to loose the science...and the eventual science is the only thing that makes the terrible initial production from a jungle start worthwhile.

Well, that's how I see it, anyway. I'll freely admit that I'm actually pretty bad at this game, so any balance suggestions I make could just be completely off.