New resources underwhelming?

Joined
Jul 23, 2022
Messages
130
Hey, I don't intend to discourage or something but I find rice and maze disspointing as basically wheat with a different icon. No new buildings, no different yields or strategies. I was very enthusiastic towards seeing those but they are just... you know, they didn't add anything in the end.

Futhrtmore, I play Milae's map which needs to have them off for a very good resource placement. DOn't know how many people play it, but it's the only good map IMO.

I appreciate the try with the new resources but I think it would be much better if we add another stategic/lux with new requirements and effects. Or just a diffrent bonus resources which is not a new wheat, but for example a lumbermill or jungle camp resource (as of now they have nothing and feel very land) with a brand new building improving. Maybe a new camp one? I think new resources can liven the play of VP extremely.

What are your thoughts? Just timber was historically a major construction and naval resource, we could do it as either stategic or bonus resource. Wheat which is a very weak resource, especially on non-freshwater tile, whould get gold in renaissance, cause VP lacks international food or bonus resources trade, which was always a major part of trade between nations.
Cotton is a new addition as a cloth, medieval and ancient europe dressed in hemp, don't know about other regions but that could be another bonus resource.

Maybe we should rethink sheep and bison? I think they do more harm than good if they block mines on scarce hills or good farms. It's a bad resource when the tile without it would be so much stronger and desirable.

Furthermore, I think fishing boats should get a boost from industry policy tree, as mine, quarry, jungle camp and lumber mill do.
 

balparmak

Prince
Joined
Sep 20, 2015
Messages
544
I implemented the new resources and I wholeheartedly agree. We discussed/are discussing this a lot on discord but they're basically wheat duplicates until the community agrees on a rework. I think pdan will do a farm resource overhaul in his tweaks, people can try that and we can integrate it if nothing better comes up.
I remember talks about adding clay, obsidian and/or rubber to balance terrains, but I don't know much about them
 

CppMaster

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Feb 13, 2018
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Poland
Yeah, what's the point of just the different icon, lol. If that was a luxury item then it'd make sense, because at least it would give some hapiness.
 
Joined
Jul 23, 2022
Messages
130
Maybe we should make surplus food or access to food resources give even more happiness than a luxuries and increase unhapiness from needs or number of cities or something else. Cause now sometimes happiness could be completely desctivated as a system and you wouldn't notice a difference.

After all, food was hisorically a most important reasource for both political stability and economy, far more than gold, iron or any luxury.
 
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andersw

Emperor
Joined
Feb 11, 2008
Messages
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Location
sweden
I implemented the new resources and I wholeheartedly agree. We discussed/are discussing this a lot on discord but they're basically wheat duplicates until the community agrees on a rework. I think pdan will do a farm resource overhaul in his tweaks, people can try that and we can integrate it if nothing better comes up.
I remember talks about adding clay, obsidian and/or rubber to balance terrains, but I don't know much about them

That was my thought, ok it was added and from there we will maybe see some variety in what yields.
Good not to add all features at once.
Another thought is ... how many different resources do we need? do they fill a meaningful function?
 

andersw

Emperor
Joined
Feb 11, 2008
Messages
1,466
Location
sweden
Hey, I don't intend to discourage or something but I find rice and maze disspointing as basically wheat with a different icon. No new buildings, no different yields or strategies. I was very enthusiastic towards seeing those but they are just... you know, they didn't add anything in the end.

Futhrtmore, I play Milae's map which needs to have them off for a very good resource placement. DOn't know how many people play it, but it's the only good map IMO.

I appreciate the try with the new resources but I think it would be much better if we add another stategic/lux with new requirements and effects. Or just a diffrent bonus resources which is not a new wheat, but for example a lumbermill or jungle camp resource (as of now they have nothing and feel very land) with a brand new building improving. Maybe a new camp one? I think new resources can liven the play of VP extremely.

What are your thoughts? Just timber was historically a major construction and naval resource, we could do it as either stategic or bonus resource. Wheat which is a very weak resource, especially on non-freshwater tile, whould get gold in renaissance, cause VP lacks international food or bonus resources trade, which was always a major part of trade between nations.
Cotton is a new addition as a cloth, medieval and ancient europe dressed in hemp, don't know about other regions but that could be another bonus resource.

Maybe we should rethink sheep and bison? I think they do more harm than good if they block mines on scarce hills or good farms. It's a bad resource when the tile without it would be so much stronger and desirable.

Furthermore, I think fishing boats should get a boost from industry policy tree, as mine, quarry, jungle camp and lumber mill do.

Bison is not a good resource, sheep provides a bit of everything which makes it subpar.
Neither are lux or strategic.
 

Cebrudras

Chieftain
Joined
Jan 28, 2019
Messages
38
I think we could make the granary a bit more complex to make these resources matter. Maybe something like 'Provides 2 additional :c5food: if the city works at least 2 different ressources boosted by this building'.
 

pineappledan

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Joined
Aug 9, 2017
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Alberta, Canada
I have added some changes to the resources in my tweaks mod (link in my signature)

They all still give +1 :c5food: on the resource and +1:c5food: for 2 adjacent, but I changed the yield from farm improvement:
1:c5food: on maize
1:c5gold:on rice
1:c5production:on wheat

I also added a new Lodge building, which now has the deer and bison boosts, so Granary is just the plant-based bonus resources.
The Lodge is boosted by Goddess of the Hunt pantheon. In exchange, GotH no longer has the tundra resource :c5food:bonus.

So adding the resources gave me an excuse to make the granary about storing crop food, and gave us another ancient building for pantheons to boost. This cleans up a bit of the overlap with bonus resources etc on the granary, which was getting a bit too overstacked with things, and separates the Stars & Sky and Hunt pantheons from each other better.
 

CppMaster

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Joined
Feb 13, 2018
Messages
2,164
Location
Poland
I have added some changes to the resources in my tweaks mod (link in my signature)

They all still give +1 :c5food: on the resource and +1:c5food: for 2 adjacent, but I changed the yield from farm improvement:
1:c5food: on maize
1:c5gold:on rice
1:c5production:on wheat

I also added a new Lodge building, which now has the deer and bison boosts, so Granary is just the plant-based bonus resources.
The Lodge is boosted by Goddess of the Hunt pantheon. In exchange, GotH no longer has the tundra resource :c5food:bonus.

So adding the resources gave me an excuse to make the granary about storing crop food, and gave us another ancient building for pantheons to boost. This cleans up a bit of the overlap with bonus resources etc on the granary, which was getting a bit too overstacked with things, and separates the Stars & Sky and Hunt pantheons from each other better.
Cool! Now it makes sense. What do you think about merging it to the base VP? Just the part that you've just mentioned.
 

andersw

Emperor
Joined
Feb 11, 2008
Messages
1,466
Location
sweden
Another issue in general with camps is that they dont get any adjacency or fresh water bonuses, so camps will basically be comparable to dry single farms.
I think the best use of those tiles are GP plots.
 

jdevo

Chieftain
Joined
Jul 8, 2005
Messages
84
Location
New Jersey
I have added some changes to the resources in my tweaks mod (link in my signature)

They all still give +1 :c5food: on the resource and +1:c5food: for 2 adjacent, but I changed the yield from farm improvement:
1:c5food: on maize
1:c5gold:on rice
1:c5production:on wheat

I also added a new Lodge building, which now has the deer and bison boosts, so Granary is just the plant-based bonus resources.
The Lodge is boosted by Goddess of the Hunt pantheon. In exchange, GotH no longer has the tundra resource :c5food:bonus.

So adding the resources gave me an excuse to make the granary about storing crop food, and gave us another ancient building for pantheons to boost. This cleans up a bit of the overlap with bonus resources etc on the granary, which was getting a bit too overstacked with things, and separates the Stars & Sky and Hunt pantheons from each other better.
This is really great. I'd love to see more niche buildings that don't need to be built in every city.
 

balparmak

Prince
Joined
Sep 20, 2015
Messages
544
Yeah it looks good, and since no one raised any objections, it's good enough to include in the 2.7 imho. I'm not available for a month or so, it'd be great if anyone else can integrate it, if not I'll do it when I return. Textures & maize icons are already fixed for the next version btw, so I'm confident the resources will feel a lot more polished.
 

pineappledan

Deity
Joined
Aug 9, 2017
Messages
8,274
Location
Alberta, Canada
@pineappledan I noticed you removed the food on completion for granary in your tweaks mod. You don't like it?
The new Lodge gives instant :c5food: food on border expand. Two instant food sources in the early ancient felt redundant, and I prefer the more consistent yields on border expand than the 1 time instant food.

Granary does plenty already, and I felt it was overloaded. Without the instant yield on construction it still has:
- 15% Food kept. Functionally a 2nd, exponentially scaling instant :c5food: food trigger
- :c5food:ITR unlock
- resource bonuses
 
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azum4roll

Deity
Joined
Jul 17, 2018
Messages
2,243
The new Lodge gives instant :c5food: food on border expand. Two instant food sources in the early ancient felt redundant, and I prefer the more consistent yields on border expand than the 1 time instant food.

Granary does plenty already, and I felt it was overloaded. Without the instant yield on construction it still has:
- 15% Food kept. Functionally a 2nd, exponentially scaling instant :c5food: food trigger
- :c5food:ITR unlock
- resource bonuses
It's still a massive nerf to food-poor starts. You'll have to wait for border growth to build your first settler.
 
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