Keystone Pipeline

[onejayhawk]

I am surprised this was not brought up already. President Trump revived the Dakota Access and XL pipelines shut down by the Obama administration.
http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/uproar-after-trump-approves-pipeline-projects/
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/24/us/politics/keystone-dakota-pipeline-trump.html?_r=0

J

 

[Zkribbler]

This was expected. For a few temporary profits, the GOP will happily pollute the environment.

 

[Nanuk]

This was expected. For a few temporary profits, the GOP will happily pollute the environment.

Trucking it over will pollute it more. Got enough big rigs on the road, don't you think? I will also add that with an entire generation of truckers retiring right now, many trucking companies are hiring whoever they can. In North Dakota, during beet harvest, this tends to cause some problems. It was also an issue when the oil boom hit a few years back. Safety standards are worse on trucks than they are on pipelines.

North Dakota had a railway spill recently. This is probably the best way to transport oil over land, but it's pretty costly. I understand that's the general idea of the green movement, to make dirty energy too costly to want to do it, but unfortunately that ends up just punishing everyone below the middle income line. The idea should be to punish everyone who can create the change, not the people who have to live with it one way or another.

I don't think you can really ship the oil down the Missouri and Mississippi.

So....

Pipeline spills are going to happen and that is going to suck. It will force some changes in local aquifers and farmlands, we don't all love showering in hot, black cancer. But I understand why the pipeline is realistically going to have to happen. We don't all have our wind-powered cars just yet. But with enough subsidies, we can get there. North Dakota is pretty wind-power friendly with those subsidies right now.

 

[sophie]

Trucking it over will pollute it more.

North Dakota had a railway spill recently.

I don't think you can really ship the oil down the Missouri and Mississippi.

So....

Cool. So pipe it through Bismark if it's so safe.

 

[Nanuk]

Cool. So pipe it through Bismark if it's so safe.

Maybe look at a map of the pipeline route. Bismarck's water shelter and farmland is in the pipeline's route.

Also sneaky edit.

A case about different methods of transporting crude;

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesco...ude-pipeline-rail-truck-or-boat/#706b04c5777d

The other alternative is "don't use it," but I don't understand how that's realistically possible.

 

[Berzerker]

we should be using up ME oil first

 

[sophie]

Maybe look at a map of the pipeline route. Bismarck's water shelter and farmland is in the pipeline's route.

Also sneaky edit.

The whole controversy sprung up because the route was originally supposed to run north of Bismark, but as it crossed over the Missouri directly upriver of Bismark, and that was deemed a potential hazard by the (predominantly white) community of Bismark, it was rerouted south of Bismark, which crossed through theoretically Sioux land, and passed directly upriver of Sioux reservation land. It's straight up racist, right? It can't pass upriver of white people land, that's dangerous! Native American land? Meh, who cares. So I say again. If it's so safe, why not go back to the original route running just north of Bismark?

 

[Nanuk]

The whole controversy sprung up because the route was originally supposed to run north of Bismark, but as it crossed over the Missouri directly upriver of Bismark, and that was deemed a potential hazard by the (predominantly white) community of Bismark, it was rerouted south of Bismark, which crossed through theoretically Sioux land, and passed directly upriver of Sioux reservation land. It's straight up racist, right? It can't pass upriver of white people land, that's dangerous! Native American land? Meh, who cares. So I say again. If it's so safe, why not go back to the original route running just north of Bismark?

First off, "upriver" is also Williston and Stanley. Also predominantly white municipalities. Not to mention the almost completely white counties between Williston and Bismarck.

Second, again I refer you to "water shelter" and "farmland" North Dakota is not exactly a high population state. Bismarck may be the seat of the government, but the representatives come from rural communities that are predominantly farmer families. The ranchers and farmers tend to be white.

Third, the northern route was rejected by the Army Corps of Engineers, not Bismarck. The northern route was offered as an alternative to the Corps, it was not hidden from the vetting process. The community discussions were the same throughout the entire pipeline route.

Finally, the tribe did not attend regulatory meetings at all. They maintained that because of a treaty established in the 19th century and a decree passed by native tribes around the country in 2012, the government had no right to put a pipeline near their reservations. That was all that was heard from them. This is not much different than various municipalities throughout the Dakotas and Iowa also showing up to a meeting and saying they'd rather not be in the vicinity. But they ended up being in the line anyways.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Before this gets too wild I'd like to point out that "Trump saves the pipelines!!!" is the Trump provided headline interpretation of the orders. Looking at the text of the orders a more appropriate headline would be "Trump tells agencies to review pipeline requests as the law allows" which they were pretty much already doing. He did not provide any cover for agencies to "push" anything through, did not try to claim any federal authority over states, and asked TransCanada to "look again and maybe rekindle the old flame" while keeping in mind that he was making them no promises that they would get any support with recalcitrant state legislators and no hint as to what the "terms as put forth by the US" might eventually be.

Ultimately, this hyper-hyped bit of executive "ordering" has about as much bite as toothless grandma, and she's dead.