Khazad Early Expansion Strategy

[Nefelia]

Concerning higher Settler costs -- It appears to me that the cost of Settlers depends on the Era. In most games, there comes a point when I can build one in about 4 turns and at that point I crank out as many as I think I will need in the long run.

I've also noticed that there comes a time when I can pump out Settlers ridiculously quickly, but I always assumed it was due to a more developed capital city along with the +90% production bonus in said city.

I'll keep an eye out for that.

 

[Grey Fox]

Its a viable strat, it just has a few weaknesses:
- pumping out great merchants (weaker than Great Sage, imo)

Not really. A Khazad economy can run at 100% science at all times, a Great Sage strat has a harder time doing so. And a Khazad economy has +45% GP rate even without being philosophical. And gold is strong in civ, even stronger in FfH as more civics can rush with gold. Khazad doesn't even need to rush much since they are production monsters, but if you combine rushing in new cities with gold, with their extreme production you get a total monster.

A Khazad city with Mammon, and several Merchants/Priests and their Great Specialists is a super city indeed. Especially with priests. But Great Merchants increase the amount of possible specialists as well. That +1 food is excellent.

 

[Grey Fox]

Oh and yeah. God King is really good with Khazad. But if you expand quickly you might want to wait with using it, till you got plenty of specialists and great specialists planted in your capital. (And you got some courthouses built perhaps)

 

[brainpan]

Not really. A Khazad economy can run at 100% science at all times, a Great Sage strat has a harder time doing so. And a Khazad economy has +45% GP rate even without being philosophical.

I didn't think of that, probably because I'm still enthralled with the wonders of Great Sage production. But even if it might be preferrable to pop out a Merchant or two as Khazad, I think it's a no-brainer that your first pop should be a Sage. No?

Anyway, it has been a while since I've played FFH. I can't remember the Khazad getting an additional +45% GP rate. Could you remind me how that works?

And gold is strong in civ, even stronger in FfH as more civics can rush with gold. Khazad doesn't even need to rush much since they are production monsters, but if you combine rushing in new cities with gold, with their extreme production you get a total monster.

Not to mention the ability to upgrade units (at half cost with Khazad) to produce an instant irresistable army! A lot of times, the effort to produce wealth should only be tempered by an ability to defend it. It's no good spamming cottages if your neighbor is spamming cottage smashers.

A Khazad city with Mammon, and several Merchants/Priests and their Great Specialists is a super city indeed. Especially with priests. But Great Merchants increase the amount of possible specialists as well. That +1 food is excellent.

Why are the Priest specialists important? My instinct is to run out a Great Merchant, or two, as you suggest, but to otherwise concentrate on Great Sages. Maybe I'm due for a refresher course...

 

[brainpan]

I wonder what would happen if the standard Khazad expansion strat was run in reverse. What if Khazad settlements were spammed very early with each new city situated so it could produce a quick warrior and worker for itself?

Perhaps having a cottage or two in each settlement would alleviate the inital penalty for an empty vault. Expotential growth could then possibly make up for a somewhat slower start. Has anyone tired this?

In reality, it is much easier for Khazad to achieve early expansion by simply rolling over a neighbor in the early game, but it might be fun to see if they can do it peacefully.

 

[Grey Fox]

They can expand pretty quickly just like most civs. And they can even keep the vault up quite high once they got festivals and/or RoK even with many cities.

I didn't think of that, probably because I'm still enthralled with the wonders of Great Sage production. But even if it might be preferrable to pop out a Merchant or two as Khazad, I think it's a no-brainer that your first pop should be a Sage. No?

Yeah a sage for the acadamy is a good first specialist. If you can get it from writing even better.

Anyway, it has been a while since I've played FFH. I can't remember the Khazad getting an additional +45% GP rate. Could you remind me how that works?

Overloading Vault = +25% GPP, and Arate +20%.

Not to mention the ability to upgrade units (at half cost with Khazad) to produce an instant irresistable army! A lot of times, the effort to produce wealth should only be tempered by an ability to defend it. It's no good spamming cottages if your neighbor is spamming cottage smashers.

True that.

Why are the Priest specialists important? My instinct is to run out a Great Merchant, or two, as you suggest, but to otherwise concentrate on Great Sages. Maybe I'm due for a refresher course...

Usually I almost only concentrate on merchants in the cities I pop out specialists in. The Great Prophets is just an alternative strategy if you wanna focus more on Khazad's production (+2 hammers +5 gold)

Great merchants are great cause each one pays for half a specialist or a full one under Veil. Which is why I love making Merchant cities with Alexis.

 

[westamastaflash]

Don't forget the power of slave trade with gold :-D

Merchants are the best great person. +1 Food FTW.

 

[Wolfski]

Is there a listing of the effects of the Kazad dwarven vault. I have noticed the 1st level is 1 . It seems the second level is plus 2 xp for new units(like a free barrack).

 

[xienwolf]

Just click on one of the vault entries in the Civlopedia and it ought to display them all.

EDIT: And amazingly enough I forgot to make a plug for the "Complete FfH Manual" link in my sig, which now has mucho info.

 

[Demus]

i'm guessing you just switched to Ap. ship (education civ, gives +2 exp), since the vaults don't give exp to units. The lowest levels give a happiness penalty, the higher ones a happiness bonus, aswell as production bonusses. Overflowing (the best you can get) also increases GPP rate. For the exact numbers, check the pedia

 

[Calbrenar]

Just for the hell of it I tried the opposit of this strategy. Going for sages -- Never making a city unless I had the ability to max (2nd city @ 1000 third at 1500)

I'm ranked fourish with Bambur and Mwhatever and can pretty much kill whoever I want. My 3 cities are so compact and are at 100% science with +100 a turn income due to RoK and Cottage spam. Research is humming along going for druids and such. Plan on taking 2 more cities from AI to bring me up to 5 cities (@ 2500g) and keep doing that all game.

 

[Nefelia]

At what difficulty?

I find myself keeping my vault at Low throughout the early and late game, and prioritizing expansion over gold collection. Bringing my vault up to Overflowing can wait until I have the majority of my scientific goals met. Even so, it makes for a great late game bonus. Standard mine + 1 (Arete) + 1 (Blasting Powder) + 40% (Overflowing Vault) + other bonuses = Win.

I gave up on keeping an Overflowing Vault near the start. The benefits are not worth being out-teched and out-settled.

 

[TinkerJohn]

Hello.

I'm a dwarf player, and I recently tried a game following these suggestions as close as I good.

They work very very well. The extra gold, growth, and production just synergizes extremely well. Two BIG thumbs up for this guide!

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

I keep it on low or empty most of thegame. -1 hapiness is not much of a big deal since religion and RoK can overcome that anyway. The vaults are are "win-more" mechanic rather than something that helps you win, and great merchants aren't easy to get either.

Seriously though, I sometimes feel that Khazad works best with CoE, because of slave buying, religion-spreading, and **dwarven shadows**. Collateral damage and attacks weakest unit in stack, WTH?! 2 movement and dwarven means 4 movement on hills... attack, retreat, rinse, repeat. Sounds like something the Hippus would like to do.