Kill two cs get denounce?

[Glassmage]

I want to get Domination victory but it is hard if people denounce you after 2 cs die. >_>

I only killed Malacca and Singapore. Siam was protector of Malacca and complained a lot. We had a DoF but then he denounced/backstabbed me. Japan then denounced me too. Ah well at least with me controlling the gateway to Australia which has a lot of resources I should be fine.... No one wants my nutmeg now.

Spoiler :

 

[Blitz Spearman]

The warmongering diplo penalty had its formula changed in BNW. I believe that you get less penalty for declaring the war, but more penalty for actually taking cities. And I am pretty sure that the penalty for taking a CS is way higher than the penalty for taking a city from a Civ.

Off-topic: what's up with Malacca's and Singapore's location? They are three tiles apart from each other, that should be impossible. Is that a mod? Well, I guess it must be, since you seem to be using accurate Earth locations mod too. I am interested in looking at a late game screenshot of that, must be hilarious seeing what happens with Europe completely crowded and Mongolia having about 1/3 of the lands of the world as empty space around them

 

[Goldstar]

Off-topic: what's up with Malacca's and Singapore's location?

The whole "3 tiles between cities" rule only applies when two cities are on the same landmass. Yes, 1 tile islands count as separate landmasses.

 

[Nicasen]

The warmongering diplo penalty had its formula changed in BNW. I believe that you get less penalty for declaring the war, but more penalty for actually taking cities. And I am pretty sure that the penalty for taking a CS is way higher than the penalty for taking a city from a Civ.

Off-topic: what's up with Malacca's and Singapore's location? They are three tiles apart from each other, that should be impossible. Is that a mod? Well, I guess it must be, since you seem to be using accurate Earth locations mod too. I am interested in looking at a late game screenshot of that, must be hilarious seeing what happens with Europe completely crowded and Mongolia having about 1/3 of the lands of the world as empty space around them

There's a few giant earth maps out there but the one I use (YNAEMP) will let city states settle next to each other with only 2 spaces between them.

 

[kaltorak]

The warmongering penalties are out of hand in my opinion. In my actual game, after over 300 turns(epic) of friend triangle, I killed another civ who only had 2 cities and was already at war with 1 of my friends... and I got mass denounced by all the AIs, starting with my 2 "friends".

That's all it took, didnt fight any other single war or capture any other city. Just 2 cities, 1 civ, enemy of my friends... and that gets me a mass denounce by all AIs.

 

[phillipwyllie]

Warmonger diplo penalty gets multiplied each civ's warmongering tolerance. Taking a civ out is consider warmongering by all civs, except those who you bribed to join in. You may notice that the AI is constantly asking you to DOW it's enemies and if you say no(and the other civs say no) it won't go to war. If on the other hand you do say yes, and others say yes it will go to war.

They say the dipo modifier for declaring war has been reduced but I've found that if you take out a civ that has DOW you then there doesn't seem to too much in the way of negative warmongering. I've seen the AI try to provoke me to DOW them but I usually hold out until they make the first move. Then there can be no peace until I've removed their religion from their holy city......

 

[VainoValkea]

If you're going domination victory, you should work towards self-sufficiency in my opinion and not care about the jealous rivals denouncing you. Starting with massive CS conquest (two is already a lot) is a bad idea because it makes the other civs hate you without making them weaker at all - at least by fighting a common enemy of some other civ you could've made a friend and weakened a rival.

 

[scheva007]

wow, krakatoa for once not on a useless place

 

[Glassmage]

its Gedemon TSL giant map. Krakatoa is purposely placed there.

 

[Quineloe]

Just like you get mass denounced the moment you break +20 tourism for your culture victory, or enter the modern Era for your science victory or ally your fifth city state on your way to your diplomatic victory, the AI recognizes which path to victory you are going and disapproves that you are trying to win the game.

 

[troublmaker]

It's absolutely insane. I'll get a denunciation from wiping out one civ from the person who asked me to declare war on said person.

 

[VainoValkea]

Just like you get mass denounced the moment you break +20 tourism for your culture victory, or enter the modern Era for your science victory or ally your fifth city state on your way to your diplomatic victory, the AI recognizes which path to victory you are going and disapproves that you are trying to win the game.

I wish it was this way but no. The AI doesn't care about tourism or diplomacy powerhouses winning in the least, except maybe scold you for taking over their friendly CS.

 

[FrostK]

If you go domination, you should never conquer CS until:
1. There is Greece and u cant make CS allies.
2. There is CS with very tasty land.
The reason is that when you become 'big' you need a lot smiles, also 1 food per each city is rly huge bonus when u have 50 cities. Culture is always wellcome too. You should have a lot of gold to ally all or nearly all CS.
So I think for domination if u want to get all land on King and Immortal, you should go liberty->patronage first. You will have GP which you r lack of, tons of happiness and allies to attract AIs armies.

Another point is diplo hit.

 

[Dogmouth]

Just like you get mass denounced the moment you break +20 tourism for your culture victory, or enter the modern Era for your science victory or ally your fifth city state on your way to your diplomatic victory, the AI recognizes which path to victory you are going and disapproves that you are trying to win the game.

Killing 2 CS's doesn't get you any closer to domination.

 

[Quineloe]

I wish it was this way but no. The AI doesn't care about tourism or diplomacy powerhouses winning in the least, except maybe scold you for taking over their friendly CS.

yes, I was being sarcastic.

The AI doesn't care that you're one part away from SS victory, 1 city state ally away from winning with the next vote or 1% away from being culturally dominant over the last civ.

But if you dare to win the game through domination, they'll denounce you after you take out one civ and permawar you after taking out a second.

Killing 2 CS's doesn't get you any closer to domination.

Yes that's true, but if you were half way on a domination victory, everyone would hate you for it.

 

[rexman07]

Somewhat related to major civs' reaction to attacking city-states: I think the city-states' reaction to attacking city-states needs adjusting.

In my current Immortal Normal-size Continents Epic-speed game, I declared war twice on city-states to steal a worker from them. I never conquered a city-state. Upon the second declaration of war, I got a message that city-states were angry at me. My resting point for influence with two city states dropped 20, which is not that big of a deal, but what was worse was that I started losing influence at (I think) double rate with ALL city states. And that penalty is still applying to me 300 turns later, even though I have never committed any aggression against a city-state since. (I did declare war on a major civ that had a city-state ally, but I never touched any of that city-state's units and made peace with it as soon as I could.)

I think this is an absurdly harsh penalty. I guess they really want to nerf the 'worker steal" strategy (which I was trying for the first time). But I can't think of any other penalty you can earn on turn 100 which lasts for the rest of the game. And it's SO EXPENSIVE. And I never even conquered a city-state -- just declared war twice!

With the new World Congress system, it seems so profitable to be friendly to city states, and with the current diplomatic penalties with major and minor civs, and with the penalties to puppet cities and the penalties to additional cities (if you decide to annex, you're slowing your social policies and most likely your science), it seems so disadvantageous to ever attack a city state. I think the pendulum has swung too far. It shouldn't always be right to conquer city-states -- then all the cool mechanics involving city-states would not get used. But it also shouldn't never be right to declare war on or conquer a city-state, or our options are just limited.

You can bully/ask for tribute but that's kind of boring.

What have other people experienced in this area?

 

[evilcat]

OMG warmogering penalty... its killing the game, at least it is not impossible to tweak it in files. There is so much nonsense in it.

There is a formula that penalty depends on total number of cities in world, and enemy city amount. So if you take single city early game it will hit you a lot. Also if you take city from CS it will be even worse since you take all their cities! The good thing is that AI is cheating and get away with settling cities in stupid places, so the number of cities will rise.

Also why city states are so solidary? They have some kind league? Hidden conspiracy!

Warmongering penalty will hount you hundret turns after. No matter who started the war it was your fault, since you took city!

 

[Theruss]

I think it's very likely to get denounced by all the other Civs who are not warmongering themselves the moment you take out 2 Civs or 2 CS. Every time I did, this was indeed the case. A lot of the times, I can seem to get away with taking out one Civ or CS. Sure, the warmonger diplo hit will show it self, but most Civs will stay on neutral or may dip into guarded. But no denounce.

Can still get fairly good deals from the AI at this level, not optimal but better than the "deals" they give you after they denounce you.

Of course, peacemongering Civs like India, Siam, Brazil etc will probably denounce sooner rather than later. It is expected.

 

[Glassmage]

just some update, I still get denounced by Siam, India, and Mongolia. Surprisingly China, Korea, and Japan tolerate me pretty well and did not denounce me. In fact they still give pretty good gpt for my luxuries.

I just took Siam's capital and expanded into Australia. I am now the High Consul of Southeast Asia. Next step, domination of the Far East Asia.

I wasted 4 missionaries on Sukothai the Holy City of Buddhism.

Spoiler :

Currently I am trying to get Kyoto and Seoul with my mega Trireme forces and Swordmen upgraded from Kris. Mongolia is fighting with China but Wu has Great Wall so there is a stalemate there. Japan took Seoul from Korea! Poor Sejong.

Spoiler :

Australia has Sydney and Melbourne yay happiness. Also Uluru and Barrier Reef are helpful.

Spoiler :

I really need to find more trade partners. >_>

 

[Blitz Spearman]

Hahah just I thought, Genghis Khan is going batshit insane with his expansion, alone in Central Asia.