King Richard and Colossus For Empire

[TimTheEnchanter]

I would ask what the pint of such a super-city is if you don't have a fundamentalist gov., as otherwise if you build lots of units in it and disperse them around te world, your city would get pretty upset

This is why most "Super Production City" strategies call for having Shakespeare's Theatre in the city as well.

 

[DSN]

So how much production would a SPC have on average?

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

That's all very well, but what bif the city gets bribed, or bombardered from air or sea or if it simply gets unhappy for some reason or other.

If you choose to focus your attention on such a powerful city, you should also be committed to protecting it, and managing it appropriately. Have defenders and counter-attackers in/around the city. If you're really worried about invaders, patrol around it with fast units and ships looking for invaders and dips, use vet units, build walls or coastal fortresses if you feel they are necessary. Expand around the city to give a buffer to your nearest neighbor.

If a city is really important, you should be paying enough attention to it that it never becomes unhappy. As others have alluded to, one of the advantages of this type of strategy is that you can focus resources in one place for maximum benefit. If you invest in keeping this one city happy and growing you get big benefits while only having to invest in one city. This is expecially true in the case of the one-city science and trade wonders. The cumulative affect of Copernicus, Newton, Library, University, and Research lab is something like 8 beakers for every arrow devoted to science. By having Colossus in that mix, in a city that you grow to size 20, and you just added 160 beakers to your city every turn - and that's before the cumulative affect of trade routes (and the effect of colossus on them). Even with the production cities - if you get a city with high production, with Shakes you can invest in that one city to get your benefits. One market, one bank, and some decent trade routes, and you can probably have that city grown fat and happy giving you more added production (from happy citizens) than if you had built markets in 10-15 cities.

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

So how much production would a SPC have on average?

I don't often go the SPC route, so it's hard for me to put a number on it. But go look at some of the save games over time from this Deity+2 succession game. Follow the development of Tsingtao. That was a high-production city where over time, we focused a lot of energy on improving and growing the city. It helped us snag a key wonder or two and in the end it became a monster producer.

 

[DSN]

"By having Colossus in that mix, in a city that you grow to size 20"

The thing with that is, in most cases wouldn't colossus be obselete by the time your city was so big? Otherwise I agree with what you say.

The thing with me is, I'm pathetic at getting a decent science rate. In my current game it's about 900AD, but I only gat advances every 20 turns. A bit slow.

Also the immeadiate returns on caravans seem small (at most 20 coins, but mostly 4 coins), by that I mean the one off payment. I can't say I'm the best player ever, can I?! I've been using most caravans to help build wonders and only a few for trade. I'll try to do more trade. I can't trae with neighbours as I'm at war with them.

 

[geofelt]

I build KRC in my super city every chance I get. A super city needs trade squares, but these usually don't produce much, so KRC fixes that problem. A super site with a fair number of sea squares can grow rapidly and give lots of trade beakers. I try to limit production to 20 shields which is the max without pollution. If you have hanging gardens and set for a few luxuries, you can get the city celebrating which will add a trade arrow per square. Combined with the arrow colossus gives you get 4 arrows per ordinary sea square. Add in copernicus and a library you get all the science you need in the early part of the game when you need it most. By the time colossus and KRC expire, I don't need them as much. When I started playing civ many moons ago, I avoided one city wonders and those that expired. I became more proficient when I learned how to use them.

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

"By having Colossus in that mix, in a city that you grow to size 20"

The thing with that is, in most cases wouldn't colossus be obselete by the time your city was so big? Otherwise I agree with what you say.

The thing with me is, I'm pathetic at getting a decent science rate. In my current game it's about 900AD, but I only gat advances every 20 turns. A bit slow.

Also the immeadiate returns on caravans seem small (at most 20 coins, but mostly 4 coins), by that I mean the one off payment. I can't say I'm the best player ever, can I?! I've been using most caravans to help build wonders and only a few for trade. I'll try to do more trade. I can't trae with neighbours as I'm at war with them.

The key is that you make it an emphasis for that city to grow. Anything it needs to grow, you give it, preferably the turn before it's needed. Focus your settlers/engineers on that city to provide roads (trade) and irrigation (food) so the city can grow. The investment in a market, three good trade routes, a harbor if it's coastal, maybe a bank, and maybe even a colosseum (if you don't have shake's) in order to sustain rapid WLTPD growth can all be more than worth the investment.

 

[DSN]

Granaries and aquaducts are also obviously important before too long.
I've managed to get 32 coins per turn in one city (including market an bank) which I think is fairly good for a small city (pop 9). I've bribed loads of cities in my current game now and the lack of emphasis on military seems to be helping me grow in size.

What is your ideal city:settler ratio?

 

[Prof. Garfield]

You ask interesting questions that provoke thought. I normaly do such things subconceously and don't think about them. Perhaps the best way to learn is by being helped along. The easyest way to do that would be through succession games, perhaps you may join one, or at least read up on some of them. Or you can ask questions about a specific game. What level do you play? On the early levels, trade is not very productive because the comp has no decent cities, and internal trade is not usualy very profitable.
Settler ratio's vary depending on what you need. If you are a perfectionist, you will probably have a higher ratio than if you are planting cities asap. If I want to improve the land and it is not happening fast enough, I will build more. I normaly save my intensive terrain improvement untill explosives, because I do roads for the most part first, and engineers are much more efficient.

 

[DSN]

The easyest way to do that would be through succession games

Is that one you actually succeed in? No, not for me...!

I seem to have a lot of settlers around because I like my whole are to be covered in roads (helps trade and easier to move units). Also it seems easier to leave them around doing odd jobs until to get railways, so you don't have to build them again.

I play mid to deity levels (usually the 4/5th one).

 

[DSN]

Well I actually built KRC today and it gave my city production of 25 (no colussus). The city has lots of river and hills around it, so now although KRC is expired, it noe has production of 42 (with a factory), although it gives off a lot of pollution. The city is now size 19 and my very own SPC.

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

Granaries and aquaducts are also obviously important before too long.

Aqueducts and Sewers: yes. Granaries: no. The most effective way to grow a power city like that is through WLT*D celebrations. It is very rare that I ever build granaries. I almost never even think of the Pyramids. Even at half-size, filling the food box is just too slow and inefficient.

 

[DSN]

What do you mean by: WLT*D
Sorry, I'm fairly new here and don't know all your abbreviations.

 

[Ace]

What do you mean by: WLT*D
Sorry, I'm fairly new here and don't know all your abbreviations.

WLTPD means "We Love The President Day". This occurs when at least half of a city's citizens are happy and none are unhappy. In Demo, this adds a citizen per turn to the city's population as long as the city has a surplus food supply. In Republic, the celebration makes the city behave as if it was in demo, so you get the city growth and the one extra trade arrow per hex that already produces one in demo.

The big advantage of celebrating in a city is that, with an aqueduct, you can build a size 3 city up to size 12 in about 9 turns. A city needs three citizens before it will grow via celebration so some people use 3 settles/engineers to found an instant size 3 city that will immediately start growing. The second and third engineers are moved into the city and than press B to build just like you are starting a new city and it will add one citizen to your city. (This only works up to size 8, after that, engineers will not grow a city).

 

[DSN]

So you get WLT*D through luxury rates, wonders, temples. colloseums etc. I think I've done this before, without realising why the city grew so well so quickly; as I say, I don't have the instructions book, so I couldn't find this sort of thing out through simple experimentation.
But what does th * mean?

 

[la fayette]

But what does th * mean?

* = name of the leader (President if you are democracy, Consul if you are a republic, and so on)

 

[geofelt]

You can celebrate in monarchy too. Even though the city will not grow, you get an extra trade arrow per square. After you get the extra arrow, you can sometimes back off the luxuries a notch and keep it celebrating. This can help boost science early.
I try to have each city support one settler if it can, excepting the super city. If I have two, it is only until one of them can get to a new location to found a city. I never have two in a city under democracy because of the food cost. If a city is high on shield squares and short on food, then I might not support any settlers. This works for me on deity, which I play quite well.

 

[Ace]

So you get WLT*D through luxury rates, wonders, temples. colloseums etc. I think I've done this before, without realising why the city grew so well so quickly; as I say, I don't have the instructions book, so I couldn't find this sort of thing out through simple experimentation.
But what does th * mean?

This is another case where the book will not help you. The city growth is not mentioned in it. It is another of the many, many nuggets of gold you can find on the site.

 

[Stegyre]

This is another case where the book will not help you. The city growth is not mentioned in it. It is another of the many, many nuggets of gold you can find on the site.

Oh? I'm at work, right now, so I cannot consult my manual (which was on the CD with the game when I bought it), but I seem to distinctly recall the mention of WLT*D growth. My recollection is the manual mentions the effects for each type of government: Despotism produces like a monarchy (you no longer lose a point off each category of production over 2 per tile); monarchy, communism and fundy produce extra trade arrows like republic/demo; and republic and demo enjoy the rapid growth phenomenon, as long as they have excess food.

I learned all that from the manual.

What I learned from this site is how that growth can be exploited to quickly become the dominating force in any game. (This should have been obvious, but we often need to have the obvious pointed out to us.)

 

[Ace]

Your right. I should have checked the manual first. Must be senility setting in.