Kingdom Come: Deception (Game Thread)

Also, I love how Tim never considered me/g1k as two literate wolves. Lynching him helps if he flips wolf! This is some poor logic, tim.

vote: Golden1Knight

I've considered it, but excluded it...mostly under "if so, good game guys." I've read through the game and if he flips wolf it won't help isolate his partner unless his partner is you, and I just do not think it is you. If we correctly lynch G1K and the remaining wolf leaves you alive that would be so suspicious that the last wolf probably wins, because the two illiterate slobs convince each other that the only reason for the towniest to not get NKed is because they were a wolf all along. I do not want to make it that easy on the last wolf.
 
I am not a wolf.

unvote; vote: Timsup2nothin

Not sure. Lynching Tim means I have (G1K, Zelda, Jo) as partners. Seems strange to bus this late. :think:

Gotta look at the votes and Marcher ISO.

Town Tim, don't panic. Wolf Tim... panic. :lol:

Sorry my friend, you know me better than that. I might do a lot of things, but town or wolf I'm not gonna panic.
 
I'm not sure I want to be the kingmaker here, nor I don't want to let anyone else decide. Actually, I think I could trust TS with a tie as 2 mafiosos can't really snipe that. I'm not sure.
And I don't really want you to vote Tim. I'm just saying that the way you always mention him as a potential partner looks bad.

If you don't want to be kingmaker then I think lynching G1K gets you NKed. Personally, I'm trying to find a likely wolf I can lynch that gets me NKed, but I'm just not towny enough.

@JohannaK if I was a wolf then lynching me almost certainly gets TS NKed and leaves you to choose between Pzelda and G1K. Are you comfortable with that?
 
If G1K was NK'd, then I'd be at a loss. Otherwise, I believe in his wolfiness over Pzelda's.

Ofc Pzelda surviving would be a question mark, and the question to solve would be: is he a wolf or a distraction maneuvre? It's a fair question. Right now, I'm comfortable. Tomorrow, I may be riddled with doubt.


Am I missing something? If this confirms Tim, that's great. But how? :confused:

Yeah... just how? is it because G1K and I are voting for him? Much like he and Tim were voting for me before?

By that token, I must be town too, and so the last wolf is either Pzelda or TS.

If G1K was NK'd, then I'd be at a loss. Otherwise, I believe in his wolfiness over Pzelda's.

Ofc Pzelda surviving would be a question mark, and the question to solve would be: is he a wolf or a distraction maneuvre? It's a fair question. Right now, I'm comfortable. Tomorrow, I may be riddled with doubt.
In other words, I cannot know that I am or will be right, but I strongly suspect that I am.
 
This LYLO stuff is an interesting challenge. Balancing the effort between finding a wolf today against not creating a situation where the surviving wolf gets to just NK to leave someone that won't vote for them is just plain hard.

Jo being openly convinced that I am a wolf isn't really helping either.
 
Okay guys, let me ask something.

If I come up with a theory that sounds really wild, but then in my usual persuasive way it started sounding more and more plausible, and ended up as a narrative suitable for a suspense novel plot but was at least possible...is there any chance that you would buy in and just say "well, if Tim is the wolf we're beaten but we gotta go with that"?

Because I have such a theory that I am willing to bet the game on...but if spelling it out is just gonna make me "look wolfy" and get me lynched I'll skip it and take my chances that we get it right anyway.
 
Vote: MarcherJovian

I have been thinking about the fact that Tim knew MJ was literate before MJ said it? There's two possible explanations: it is either a coincidence, or it is PIS. That is to say, Tim and MJ are scumbuddies and he slipped some prior knowledge.

But before we get into that...Jo, could you provide some new theories here since the previous theories sort of went bad in the laboratory when Marcher flipped as a most likely illiterate?
 
Okay guys, let me ask something.

If I come up with a theory that sounds really wild, but then in my usual persuasive way it started sounding more and more plausible, and ended up as a narrative suitable for a suspense novel plot but was at least possible...is there any chance that you would buy in and just say "well, if Tim is the wolf we're beaten but we gotta go with that"?

Because I have such a theory that I am willing to bet the game on...but if spelling it out is just gonna make me "look wolfy" and get me lynched I'll skip it and take my chances that we get it right anyway.

We are already at max wolfiness level, please share with us :lol:
 
This LYLO stuff is an interesting challenge. Balancing the effort between finding a wolf today against not creating a situation where the surviving wolf gets to just NK to leave someone that won't vote for them is just plain hard.

Yeah, I see that.

If you end up fliping red, for example, town will almost certainly come for me, then we lose. Everything depends on who the wolves are going to NK.

Yet, first thing first as we need to get this lynch right.
 
We are already at max wolfiness level, please share with us :lol:

LOL...good point. Lemme see if there's any agreement though...and I really need @JohannaK to tell me the new theory that accounts for me having been dead wrong when I thought it was MJ who had said they were literate. Clearly it wasn't PIS from the wolfroom, once it turned out not to be right.
 
Yeah, I see that.

If you end up fliping red, for example, town will almost certainly come for me, then we lose. Everything depends on who the wolves are going to NK.

Yet, first thing first as we need to get this lynch right.

I note that "town will almost certainly come for me, then we lose" only becomes a problem for you if it is after I flip red. Why are you not equally concerned about the fact that if we operate from "we have to get this one right" the consensus seems to be "lynch G1K and hope for the best after the wolf NKs Pzelda"? If lynching you after me is a loss, lynching you now is just as much a loss.

Hey G1K did you ever really prove you could read? I know I passed you the letter I had, but did you read it before Gamez had already told us what it said?
 
No, he read a new letter that Gamez passed him afterwards.
 
Okay guys, let me ask something.

If I come up with a theory that sounds really wild, but then in my usual persuasive way it started sounding more and more plausible, and ended up as a narrative suitable for a suspense novel plot but was at least possible...is there any chance that you would buy in and just say "well, if Tim is the wolf we're beaten but we gotta go with that"?

Because I have such a theory that I am willing to bet the game on...but if spelling it out is just gonna make me "look wolfy" and get me lynched I'll skip it and take my chances that we get it right anyway.
Well, you have to. What else have we got?

But before we get into that...Jo, could you provide some new theories here since the previous theories sort of went bad in the laboratory when Marcher flipped as a most likely illiterate?

None that are complete. The whole episode is just bizarre. Feigning literacy makes exactly 0 sense from anyone's perspective except, like, a jester. It's a big red flag that could lead either to a red herring or to... I don't know? I will actually agree that the most plausible scenario is you making an honest mistake and MJ just running with it... for some reason.

Regardless, the literacy is what threw me onto you, but the constant wifom, tight-rope walking, pushing *hard, hard, hard* for townie lynches (while skillfully avoiding to vote for them), yesterday's overreaction to a single vote is what have kept me onto you. Maybe I am doing a Tim and tunnelling you hard. Maybe it's Pzelda and TS running circles over us laughing behind our backs. Right now, though, I think it's you.

Throw that theory out, let us see.
 
Okay, here goes nothin'.

I said somewhere long about day one or two that wasting time down the "who can read" rabbithole that Argon's shenanigans had created was a bad idea.

I cleared Gamez, for my own senses, when he outed himself as the letter writer to end the confusion about the letter as best he could. That clear was accepted by a lot of people, and guaranteed that no wolf wanted to take Gamez into LYLO and eventually got him NKed.

And here we are at LYLO with literacy being a key element in the decision making, even after it has been a perpetual cause of chaos from day one on. How does that happen?

I got a letter, and went on my own literacy rampage. G1K was worried about the possibility that the letter really was a clue and admitted that he could read to get his hands on it before we knew that letters were meaningless drivel pumped by Gamez. Now, a townie may very well want a clue containing letter, so that at the time seemed like a sensible play.

Then two things happen. I make a mistake in saying MJ can read, and it occurs to G1K that admitting he could read may have been a mistake because one letter writer plus one reader for each side actually makes sense. Note that MJ never corrects my mistake, and neither does G1K, who had actually cared enough about the literacy question to suggest that "the wolves have their own literate." No clearing up confusion by reminding everyone that he had indeed mentioned being literate until long after the confusion was getting stale...and was about to get MJ lynched.

Now all of a sudden we have "oh, yeah, that was me that was literate" and "how did you know I was literate in the first place" and the confusion goes on. Which reader should we lynch? I dunno, lynch someone else and we'll figure it out later...maybe there's two town literates (Visor was one)...or maybe we shoulda just lynched them both and called it a good job.

Then we lynch MJ and find out that he wasn't literate at all. G1K should have been immediately spot lynched, and there is only one reason that he wasn't, and that he still hasn't been. Pzelda pops out of the woodwork and says "oh, yeah, by the way I can read."

And the beat goes on.

If we lynch in the literates, the "other literate" is cleared, so long as it is G1K that is lynched. Pzelda just has to glib out of having not been NKed for being the towniest....some sort of WIFOM play, I assume.

If we don't lynch in the literates, we lose.

Pzelda did the single wolfiest thing in the entire game, he claimed literate to keep us from lynching G1K on the spot. And he almost got away with it.
 
Vote: Pzelda

If I am right he flips red and G1K is a dead toff wolf walking.

If I am wrong, we lose.
 
So you're saying, it's Pzelda and G1K? Is that why you said they'd be the ones left tomorrow?

This is interesting. You've like, blown my mind. Oof. I've got to think about this, but yeah it was really weird when he flipped that out of his pocket book.
 
So you're saying, it's Pzelda and G1K? Is that why you said they'd be the ones left tomorrow?

This is interesting. You've like, blown my mind. Oof. I've got to think about this, but yeah it was really weird when he flipped that out of his pocket book.

If Pzelda flips red obviously illiterate slob then it is absolutely G1K the literate wolf...if Pzelda flips red literate knight of the realm I'm in trouble, because that I think lock clears G1K. If there are three readers plus one letter writer then there is no way the wolves got two out of three. That's why we flip Pzelda first. There's no doubt that G1K flips literate.

The bad news is that if Pzelda flips Red Knight then G1K is gonna get Nked and the final three of me, TS, and Jo is a huge problem...but I think Pzelda flips red illiterate slob, much the way MJ did.

@Golden1Knight what's your take here?
 
This is very clever both ways. I mean they very well could be. Yesterday was weird.

OTOH, if you're a wolf, lynching Pzelda wins and, even if they're your partner, this sort of bare-faced bus gets you the cred you could use to doom us tomorrow.

What a mess of a game. I have to think about it.
 
It's inconvenient maybe that TS said he wasn't likely to be here and left his tiebreaker power vote parked on me.
 
He's got to be back for EoD, at least. I hope.
 
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