Knights Templar and unit support

[Aegis Shield]

Alright, now I know units you enslave don't count towards your unit upkeep. What about units you produce from wonders like Knights Templar and The Statue of Zeus? I'm pretty sure they do count against your supported units, but I could never tell.

Also, how would you rate those two wonders for a war mongering game? I never really try for the Statue of Zeus since I never have elephants, but I do like to have the knight's templar since those crusaders are just so nice when you're playing a war mongering game. Fortunately, this game I built the knights templar because I lost some other wonder to the Iroquios and I took the statue of Zeus in Moscow, so I control both.

 

[Moonsinger]

Yes, you do have to pay upkeep for crusader, and ancient cavalry.

 

[thunder]

The Statue of Zeus is real handy if u don't have horses early on. They can help u get horses thru war. I like both of the wonders. They produce units while i use the cities for building wonders.

 

[Theoden]

In a warmongering you should try to get them both. Not only becasue they will give you exceptional units, but also to deny your opponents of those units.

 

[Quilty]

I noted that you still need a barracks in the same city as the SoZ or KT wonder, in order to produce veteran units....

 

[citizen001]

Knight's Templar isn't that good as it diverts precious resources to wonder building in a critical phase of the game. plus the unit it produces isn't all that good either. it's average in offense as it has only 1 movement and a waste in defence as you build this really expensive wonder and use the units for defence. generally knights/the horse UUs are better value.

 

[whitecow]

A cool thing about those 2 wonders are that both units get an additional hit points
i.e. vetren:5
elite:6
regular:4
Thats mainly the reason I build KT because the unit isn't all that good but the additional hit point has won me several battles

 

[DBear]

Um, that's true for the Ancient Cav. Not for the Crusaders.

 

[Tomoyo]

Also, the Crusader is a pretty good unit... Five attack is the best until Cavalry, and three defense is the best until Muskets...

 

[bonscott]

Knight's Templar is also a good wonder to get if the dreaded AI "wonder cascade" takes away a key wonder you wanted like Sun Zhu or Leo. I'll take a crusader popping out every once in a while as compesation as well as to help me take said wonders I missed.

 

[Aegis Shield]

Yeah...I think I lost Leonardo to the Iroquois, so I grabbed the templar. I really hate playing against the Iroquois, they always do three times as good as any other computer. Them and the inca.

Ah well, I made up for it by forming a coalition of seven AIs to attack them so I can take their colonies and cripple them for the game. We'll call it even.

 

[TeeAhr1]

I'm obviously more of a fan of the SoZ, 3 movement and an extra hit point are pretty awesome, and it doesn't become obselete until much later. But yeah, it's all about the ivory. The bonus is that if you do have ivory, your competition for getting the wonder is pretty slim.

 

[Peepers]

@ Moonsinger: agree. Under your military advisor [F3], any units that appear in the main screen count towards upkeep, and any that appear in the bottom (horizontal) list are upkeep-free. The latter include all "captured" and enslaved units, including foreign workers, enslaved privateers/Man-o-Wars, and bombardment units. Crusaders and A-cavs appear in the main listing, and thus require upkeep.

Both wonders are very helpful, whether you're peaceful or agressive. They both bolster your military, making you a less attractive target to the AIs. I particularly like the Statue, because with ivory available, you can target it early in the Ancient Age, and often start producing very useful units before your foes have many horsemen. Crusaders can be used as defenders as good as pikemen, but with an offensive bite, and their ability to build fortresses has come in handy in a few of my games -- though it's admittedly not decisive. Overall I favor the SoZ when I can build it, mainly because it adds to your ability to do effective warmongering while you and your neighbors are still proceeding with expansion.

 

[klopolov]

I'll build knights templar ocasionally if someone beats me to the Leonardo's or Sun Tzu's, but I rarely use them to fight wars simply because I'd rather use knights and crusaders can't keep up with their speed. I find that by building it, I don't let anyone else get extra units and I can allways use them to deter AIs from going to war or disband them for some free shields (17 I believe) in my not so productive cities...

 

[gunkulator]

SoZ is a no brainer. If you can build it, you do.

KT is situation dependent. If I have both iron and horses, I'll pass on KT and just build knights. If I lack either, then I want KT so that I can go and grab what I'm missing.

 

[Civthing]

Yep, Statue of Zues saved my bacon on a certain game:

Regent
6 AIs
Celts
I was planning on using the fast celtic swordsmen to take copious amounts of land. However, one big problem... no stinkin' iron.... I'm in the middle ages still building warriors and spearmen (which still do nicely against some of the AI's border cities (not to mention a three-way alliance against the little stinker) Also, that extra hp is VERY handy. This means a veteran has the same amount of hp as an elite! An elite has the same as a... ...a super elite? Who knows. Maybe they get gold hair or something .

These wonders aren't essential (as I've found out why build Wonders when you can take them?) but they are very handy if you're playing catch-up.

 

[Rambuchan]

Ancient Cavalry - Godsend if you don't have horses, a real lifesaver.

Crusaders - TOO SLOW. Every time I've built Knights Templar I've had lots of knights in my army and the Crusaders always pitch up just in time to watch the cities fall and hardly get to fight. They're just too damn slow IMO. Their combat advantages in attack and defense are useless if they can't make it to the battlefield in time. This is negated somewhat if you've got an island style map with Crusaders in boats.

FORTIFICATION - So what? This is such an overrated ability. Fortification takes so long to build, gets used for maybe two or three attacks in a war and then the territory becomes yours and there's no need for fortification thereafter.

Yes they win little battles but the fact you can't roll Crusaders out in large numbers means they never become an effective force in an army and win wars. It's sad but I approve of these types of wonders wholeheartedly, it's a positive introduction for sure.

 

[eldar]

SoZ: A very nice Wonder, but not essential. Build for denial if you have to, but the main benefit is that it's 4 culture per turn. Look at the TR01 and TR02 SGs - both times we had Ivory, both times we were dissuaded from building it, both times we won domination before 1000AD (on Pan maps, mind).

KT: The problem I have is not the units produced - Crusaders, as mentioned, are very handy to have around (I use them to squash resistors - they arrive way behind my main advance). No, the problem is longevity. In a game where my research goes along the bottom path, if I'm trading for top techs, I'll find myself in the Industrial Age maybe twenty to thirty turns after finishing KT! Another eight or nine before I get Steam Power (immediate if I can trade for it, or if I'm Scientific), and it's already obsolete. So I've got, what, at most 6 or 7 Crusaders as a return for my original investment? I'd rather have had the Knights earlier, than the Crusaders later. The only reason I build it is for denial purposes, or if I cascade to it from (say) Leo's.

Of course the expiry issue isn't a problem if you shut off research after MT.

 

[Stormfalcon1970]

I like to get both wonders....if possible. Because I've learned the hard way that the AI have an inordinate amount of luck attacking with Ancient Cav and Crusaders. Better to deny those buggers the pleasure and score a few extra units for yourself until obsolescence kicks in.