Knights
- Thread starter Supernove
- Start date
Yzman
Deity
Calvary are so close? Well if you consider that close... they are like an age away. Now riflemen and infantry are too close. They can be only 3 or 4 techs away.
If you do your own research then they are close but if you buy them it is not. The think I don't like about knights is their stats. Their attack is barely better than swordsmen but required so much resources to build, so I usually use swordsmen/pikemen combo. They don't play a major part of my campaigne but I do build them if miltary tradition is near so I can get instant cheap upgrades. They are also served as my rapid response defense and last resort reinforcement.
nullspace
King
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2002
- Messages
- 728
Hades is certainly right about Knights and Cavalry being far apart if you buy your tech. There's a good 100 turns between the two, as the AI researches the "Education" side of the tree. But if you're researching, rushing for Cavalry sounds like a good strategy.
Knights are almost an uber-unit, they've got good attack, defense, and movement, so of course they have a very high cost. I've played the Japanese and Chinese in two recent games, so I built lots of Riders and Samurai and thought they were very useful. I suppose the golden ages they produce really help offset the high construction costs. But the nice thing about knights is that they can operate alone, they don't need a slower defensive unit to protect them. They are excellent at moving through enemy territory to strategic resources, since they move fast and can defend themselves. I think next time I'll try out a longbow/pikemen combo as my main attacking force, but any army needs a few fast units.
Knights are almost an uber-unit, they've got good attack, defense, and movement, so of course they have a very high cost. I've played the Japanese and Chinese in two recent games, so I built lots of Riders and Samurai and thought they were very useful. I suppose the golden ages they produce really help offset the high construction costs. But the nice thing about knights is that they can operate alone, they don't need a slower defensive unit to protect them. They are excellent at moving through enemy territory to strategic resources, since they move fast and can defend themselves. I think next time I'll try out a longbow/pikemen combo as my main attacking force, but any army needs a few fast units.
Evincar
Iron works is a legend!!
Well, my experience says that you need fast units if you are invading, thus Knights are a must. Samurais and Riders are better of course...However, if your war is mainly defensive, the longbowmen+pike/musket combo gives an excellent result.
For some strange reason, the conquest situation is more habitual for me...
For some strange reason, the conquest situation is more habitual for me...
Gothmog
Dread Enforcer
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2002
- Messages
- 3,352
In the newest patch the AI values military technology quite highly. Thus trying to buy Chivalry is often out of the question for quite a while.
The AI does seem to research the "Education" side of the tree so I have often used a rush towards Military Tradition to get a military edge. Also trying to fight with Knights against muskets is not fun while defending with them is.
The AI does seem to research the "Education" side of the tree so I have often used a rush towards Military Tradition to get a military edge. Also trying to fight with Knights against muskets is not fun while defending with them is.
Zachriel
Kaiser
Chivary and Military Tradition are quite far apart on the tech tree - plenty of time for at least one good war. By the time you would have waited for Cavalry, you probably could have overrun your enemy.
If your rival is being competitive, then waiting may not help as they will have Riflemen and Cavalry of their own, as opposed to Muskets and Knights of their own.
Finally, if you role-play at all, then no "true warrior" in the Middle Ages would consider waiting 200 years for a mythical future-invention to become available before smiting their enemy.
If your rival is being competitive, then waiting may not help as they will have Riflemen and Cavalry of their own, as opposed to Muskets and Knights of their own.
Finally, if you role-play at all, then no "true warrior" in the Middle Ages would consider waiting 200 years for a mythical future-invention to become available before smiting their enemy.
I only try and reasearch chivalry if i really have to. If i'm in a war and my best unit is an immortal, thats great but knights would be so much better becuase you could add an extra movement point and defensive point which could be crucial. But if you are a peaceful civ and can't be bothered by anyone because your too far away from everyone else, just go after Democracy and then cavalry
:die:
:die:
It seems like eternity for me to go from knight to cavalry.
Evincar
Iron works is a legend!!
Moonsinger: Also for me. On the other hand, I have barely ever used rifleman, specially since I discovered the HUGE advantages of belining for Replaceable parts 
SirJethro
Paterfamilias
Knights are where the tides turn for me....I can't imagine waiting until Cavalry. I go from average to mighty with Knights, mop up the little guys with Cavalry, and take the remaining big guys with Tanks.
Even on my last Monarchy conquest win, I never even got close to Modern Armor.
Even on my last Monarchy conquest win, I never even got close to Modern Armor.
Cartouche Bee
Appropriations Consultant
The reason to go after Chivalry is so that you can upgrade all your horsemen and chariots. Even if you don't want to go to war at that time you have an army of units that you can upgrade on the cheap side to cavalry. That means that you can start a war with cavalry the turn after getting Military Tradition.
Since you obviously know how to win (easily) on the hard levels SirJethro, when was the last time you actually used modern armor? I'm guess compared to what you said, my game sucks because i can't run everyone over by the time tanks roll around because me and usually 2-3 other good civs are still alive and kickin'. How do you wipe everyone out so easily? I mean, this is on regent for me.
If you are ahead in the tech race, knights can give you a big edge against ancient era units. Only legions and hoplites give them trouble, and the knights still win more often than they lose. Research chivalry and overrun your neighbors, get some GLs to help in the wonder race.
If the AI is ahead in tech, then peace is your best option, so chivalry can be bypassed in favor of other techs. You might be able to buy chivalry, but war is more risky, especially against the Japanese and Chinese. Never send knights against samarai, unless you are playing at a low level or your military is far bigger than theirs. (The samarai has a new look and seems to be much tougher now, almost as if it is a 5-5 unit but Firaxis forgot to tell us that. Or maybe they use real numbers and only report the integers
).
If the AI is ahead in tech, then peace is your best option, so chivalry can be bypassed in favor of other techs. You might be able to buy chivalry, but war is more risky, especially against the Japanese and Chinese. Never send knights against samarai, unless you are playing at a low level or your military is far bigger than theirs. (The samarai has a new look and seems to be much tougher now, almost as if it is a 5-5 unit but Firaxis forgot to tell us that. Or maybe they use real numbers and only report the integers
).I also don't see modern armor unless I take it easy, the game is usually won long before then, and that's good because the modern era can be tedious. However, the more interesting games are the ones where I let the AI grow strong, then the modern era can be fun.
Evincar
Iron works is a legend!!
Ejem, I'm currently playing a Huge Map with 16 civs, and believe me, finishing it before getting MA is hard
Another disadvantage of Knights is they take too many sheilds to build. It takes me 7-9 turns to produce a knight but only 4-6 truns to produce a cavalry. This is my situation:
Age of knights: mostly size 6 cities, despotism, don't have courthouse yet.
Age of cavalry: size 7+ cities, republic, courthouses and forbidden city, may even have factories.
Age of knights: mostly size 6 cities, despotism, don't have courthouse yet.
Age of cavalry: size 7+ cities, republic, courthouses and forbidden city, may even have factories.
DaDoo
Prince
I usually beeline straight for cavalry in my game. This gives me quite an edge since I'll be the first to have musketmen and if I'm fast enough, I'll be fighting pikemen with my cavalry. I let my great library to keep me somewhat up-to-date on other techs. Once I massed a good number of cav's I'd overrun a civ or 2 so I can grow much bigger in size to keep up and get ahead of other AI civs.
cgannon64
BOB DYLAN'S ROCKIN OUT!
They aren't that close. Anyways, usually a knight campaign followed by a mass upgrade to cavs, followed by cav campaign can be quite strong.
I'll grant that Military Tradition is a long time coming after Chivalry. However, both Knights and Cavalry suffer from strong defensive units that are available shortly after - Musketmen and Riflemen (and against infantrymen? Forgidaboudit!!) An even up defense, fortified, in a size 7+ city (that might be on hills), particularly if supported by catapults/cannons, will take significant effort to overcome. Fortunately, the AIs do not pile up a lot of defensive units; this will NOT be the case in PTW.
IMO, Knights and Calvary have somewhat short effective periods, maybe for 1 or 2 opponents to be overcome (unless you are significantly ahead in technology.) I never research Chivalry unless I'm playing aggressively and know I wont be attacking a lot of Musketmen.
IMO, Knights and Calvary have somewhat short effective periods, maybe for 1 or 2 opponents to be overcome (unless you are significantly ahead in technology.) I never research Chivalry unless I'm playing aggressively and know I wont be attacking a lot of Musketmen.
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