Knowledge Tree Nerfs (between early and late press release builds)

[ConanTLibrarian]

Hey Guys,

I was checking out Aeson's virtue calculator (planning planning planning) and noticed that a lot of the virtues in Knowledge have been nerfed. (I, of course, accept the reality that I might be remembering some of these numbers wrong, let me know if that is the case)

1. Creative Class--from 50% to 30%

2. Applied Aesthetics--from 50% to 30%

3. Networked Datalinks--from 50% to 40%

4. Memweb--from 50% to 40%

5. Metaresearch Methods--from 20% to 10%

6. Technoartisans--from 25% to 15%

Now, late game, these nerfs seem to make some sort of sense (regardless of how unpleasant they may be) but it EVEN MORE reduces the usefullness of early-game Knowledge paths (which have been discussed elsewhere on these forums). So, discuss.

Btw, Hulk sad I mean, Elodie sad

 

[cooldude1128]

Well, shoot. I guess I have to go Prosperity/Industry now instead...

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

This seams a bit off, but maybe it was needed, because of things like the holomatrix becoming way to strong for their taste.
I however don't get why they would nerf Creative Class it looked like one of the worst virtues before and now even worse.

 

[joncnunn]

Moderator Action: Title changed to note that OP is comparing early press release builds against late press release builds.

 

[ConanTLibrarian]

Thanks for the clarification Jon

 

[Esperr]

From what weve seen in the LPs knowledge seems to be weak overall, which to means sounds like an.overbalancing from a really early build where it was super OP. Or perhaps they dont want a repeat of V where science was everything.

 

[Zet]

Seems like an obvious case of Firaxis pre-nerfing Knowledge due to being afraid of science trumping everything else like in Civ V. It looked a bit weak before, now it's just bad. As first tree at least. As second tree it could be good still, however at least two virtues are only good when taken early and only one of them is optional (Field Research and Cohesive Values).

 

[Gort]

In the games I've seen so far, Industry and Prosperity seem to be the go-to trees, while Might and Knowledge get neglected.

 

[ConanTLibrarian]

I'm happy to hear that people are mentioning the exact points I was thinking of:

1. Prosperity & Industry seem to be more overall usefull. (dat )

2. Knowledge was already a little "meh" in the mind of the community, filed under the category of "nice late-game bonuses once I've gotten what I need from the other trees". Now, it seems even less desirable (esp early game).

3. Yes, perhaps this is a thing where they don't want Knowledge to be the new Rationalism tree (science FTW) and have therefore nerfed it to prevent it from being "OP".

4. Major QQ from me about Creative class, given how little positive health you get, was 50% OP? I think not, 30% just seems sad...

 

[TLHeart]

The knowledge tree gives lots of cross benefits...

social mores give +0.25 culture per citizen per city.... every 4 citizens is 1 culture.

creative class +30% culture from positive health

cohesive values -10% culture cost for new virtues.

applied aesthetics + 30% energy from your culture.

community medicine +1 health for every 6 population

memeweb -40% culture penalty for number of cities, for new virtues

monomyth +7 culture for every world wonder

the knowledge tree buffs science, culture, energy and heath.

 

[gunnergoz]

This is of course not the release build so my concerns have yet to be confirmed, but I do believe we will end up with a Virtue tree that has been optimized to push the player into one or two virtues early lest the player fall behind the AI or MP opponents. This is exactly what I was hoping to see avoided. My ideal would be a Virtue tree that offered near-equal benefits no matter which way you went. The Virtues may all balance out in the end, true, but it is the early and mid game choices that are most important in keeping the game feeling fresh and not repetitively stale. I really don't want to be stuck having to pick the same virtue choices game after game.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

4. Major QQ from me about Creative class, given how little positive health you get, was 50% OP? I think not, 30% just seems sad...

It have been teorised that this policy give culture based on how much positive health you have with no influence of negative health, basicly each health point also generate 0.3 culture.

 

[ConanTLibrarian]

If that is the case, that would be amazing, with its nerf being justified. I was assuming that it was similar to the CiV policy which gave culture based on positive happiness.