KoS2 - There can be only war

T+0


I go about the cities, adjusting builds, putting levies to the front in most cities, send out the 3 missionaries, move rifles to the front lines, move about garrison troops.


I pull the Trigger on the Steam Power trade for Constitution, and revolt to Representation in 3 turns, Queue up Democracy as next tech for Statue of Liberty.


Spoiler :
Constitutiontrade.jpg


Group together the 2 stacks going into Saladins lands, and join them up with Lysnder.


T+1


We get a +3 Random event, for which I pay the gold, 110:gold:.


Spoiler :
3event.jpg



I move the invading stack back, as Saladins sending one at us, and it'll collide with Sitting Bulls 1st, once I get out of way, why take damage.


Go about cities adjusting after growth.


Whip a Library in Gepid, starving anyway, and it can run specialists, I'm going to start to farm over some cottages, and run specialists under Caste System, as it'll take too long to grow them. Better 6:science: with filters now then gold later.






T+2


Nothing much of great note happens, I note a few farms to be built around Tolosa, Gergovia, I sneak our invading stack to the north of Wangs lands to avoid a confrontation with Saladin,


Spoiler :
Stacksneak.jpg



and settle the Great merchant in our wall Street city, renamed as such.


Spoiler :
SettleGreatMerchant.jpg



T+3


I have to pay 93:gold: to save the forge in Versailles, not happy Jan. Gepid builds a Jewish Monastery then a University, good food surplus.


As well, I do a 3 turn civics switch, to Representation, Free speech, Caste System, and Free Religion for the 10% research.


Spoiler :
Civicsswitch.jpg



Saladin, seems to have by passed Sitting Bulls stack, though as they are next to each other, war may be on cards IBT's


T+4


Looks like Saladin and Wang, both Cleaned up Sitting Bulls stack, I clean up a Calvary of Saladin, seeking to flee the carnage. We lost a rifleman to a Rouge Calvary, the stack ended up next to. Set to bombard Medina next turn.


I decide to use the Espionage we have on Wang and steal a tech if we can from Pyongyang.


T+5


5 Cannons get promoted from Barrage 1, and Accuracy (unlike my spelling) to take out the Cultural defences in 1 turn, next they all get City raider 1 and 2 and hopefully make it to 3 and beyond.


The first 2 cannons sent in are barrage 1 cannons that were damaged in the Calvary attack, odds of 0.1 and 0.2%, only wanted to do Collateral damage to troops defending for later attackers.


Spoiler :
Collateral.jpg



2 more city raider 2's at 5 % and 13% respectively, both fail, send in our Great General raider now.


At 85% he's reduced to 0.7 health, OMFG...!!!, well, it was a city defence 3 defender.


Spoiler :
Cityraider.jpg



Cannons are too precious now, send in a Pinch promoted rifle at 59%, winner. City defender 2 at 76%, LOSER!!!!


Spoiler :
76.jpg



Only needed 1 point, bad choice. Next rifle, cleans up the same defender, who wasn't scratched. Next at 76% again, cleans up. Now I take the city.


Spoiler :
Medina.jpg



Interestingly, Sitting Bulls Infantry seem to be running away from attacking Wang. Must be re-grouping for a big push.


T+6


Out of Anarchy now, research has nearly doubled, with similar loss of gold as before. Democracy due in 7 turns, a drop of 7 from previously. Hmm Emancipation unhappiness is up to -8 in Uruk and Kish, is not very happy at all.


Spoiler :
Kish.jpg


I run a flat 20% Culture, it kills the Research a bit, but what ever, dropped it in a turn or 2.



T+7


Settle in the Garrison troops, give Pinch promotion, or 2nd first strike level, don't want a surprise attack, label cities in order to be taken, and move 2nd stack into Saladins lands. Send a group of 3 knights to pillage 2 towns, that Wang will be able to work, and will hold Culturally for a long time.


T+8


IBT's Saladin picks off 2 knights and 1 rifleman with 2 Calvary and 1 rifle, losing 1 rifle on the 2nd rifle. I clean up these troops.


I lose 1 Rifle and 1 cannon, attacking the 2 Calvary, and have to swap the main stack to city No 3 to cover the attacking rifle, and send the relief stack to City No 2.


Its of no matter, just cleaning up now, need more pillages for the cottages Wang will get.


T+9


Nothing much to report, move stacks into positions, see a destroyer from Sitting Bull, build some farms etc, switch research back to rail road, for hammers.


I settle a city for the national Hermitage, to flip 2 of Wangs cities to us.


T+10


I play rudely and take the city 3rd in order, out of order :lol:


I send in 2 Barrage 2 cannons first.


Spoiler :
2x2ndBarrage.jpg



Follow up with 2 city raider 2 cannons, I lose 1 rifle at 76%, what else, and Lysander, at 98% is reduced to 0.4 health. and clean up the city.


Spoiler :
3rdinline.jpg



Well, I justify it by the 3 turns of Anarchy I suffered, I may have changed to civics your not happy with, but long term, I think they work best.


That's the last war set I'll play, so another reason.


View attachment 244507
 
Can't look at the save but I'm unhappy with the FR switch. Unless SB opted out of Judaism, we wasted about 3 turns going in and out of it.

More when I finally get home this afternoon.
 
Well as for the civic swaps, I can't really complain because I see you detailed them out in your last post and I should have commented on them. But I think we should have stayed in Slavery, since we are creative we may as well whip out a library in each city and then we don't need cast system for the scientits (I doubt the workshop bonus is enough by itself to justify CS). Then we could also whip out some more infrastructure in other buildings (partially using whip overflowed workers in cities with low hammers, 9 is insufficient).

As for FR, I don't see it as the problem that Kossin does, it looks like we will have to have one more revolution to get into emancipation, so we can swap back when we do that (maybe pop a GA with next GP too? We've got the size to justify it). Also we are at +10 with SB right now anyways, so the diplo hit doesn't hurt that bad.

One question about the tech path, right now it is set for RR, but you were talking about Demo? I think demo is the way to go, we can get it in 4 turns and then SoL for a major tech boost. I think our main competition will be SB, hopefully Ulundi will be able to crank it out faster.

I'll leave micro alone, mostly because I generally agree with what Kossin says on that front (also I'm feeling lazy and don't want to go through 21 cities :p). I will say that we should build a library in every city that doesn't have one and that Tolusa and Coventry should be cranking out the Missionaries.

Also Kish should switch to a Theater, that will quickly help out its unhappy.
 
Ok just looked at the save.

The idea with staying out of FR is to get SB @ Friendly... unlimited trades etc. Moreover, we purposely switched to a religion and OR a bit prior in order to spread it... seems like a waste now.

I think our chances of landing SoL without a GE are about ->0%. The other 3 have had Democracy for way too long. Since that's not going to happen (The fastest way I can see is Pacifism+ running a bunch of Engineers + some more GPs to accelerate it, but it's still a long shot), the only benefit is Emancipation to lessen the unhappy hit. SB has Fur+Incense for trade which will give a boosting leg in the meantime. Other than Kish, which was spanked into the stone age, pretty much every city seems to be able to survive the unhappiness atm.

We have enough troops to do w/e we want to Saladin (leave @ 1 city) so I'm cancelling all troop builds. I'm also cancelling almost every gold building, building wealth will take care of our gold problems. Adding a few science multipliers here and there. I'm also deleting every surplus troop we have in cities, 1 is enough unless revolting chances.

As a side note, Gergovia is the best Oxford candidate atm, and probably will be for a long time.

Anyway, I did some micro as I outlined.
Research is now at 60% (-58gpt) and 627bpt.

I still think heading straight for MM would have been faster than a detour to grab a few side techs, as a result, cashing in the GM rather than settling (short term -> faster research) might have been a better move.

I'll trade RR for Demo+Astro, then either Communism or straight to MM. I say maybe Communism as it means going out of Mercantilism and losing the free specialist per city. Otherwise there's not much to say going forward. Will play tonight if I get positive feedback, otherwise delayed until tomorrow.

I looked at the save again and WK is researching RR. Scrap that plan, I'm heading straight for MM and will backfill for Democracy+Astronomy with Biology and Electricity after.
 
I lost focus on Democracy, 1st it was build the Statue of Liberty, then do we take Emancipation, then it was "Oh, I'll steal it from Wang", so back to railroads for rails and hammer boosting.

We really need the Monasteries, to build the Missionaries, and the Culture helps as well.

I did put Iron works onto science, wasn't quite sure, what you all wanted the final feel to be on empire, so, I went with what I usually do.

SoL could be done, AI's are usually slow, always war, and Ironworks would be able to do it easily. I really messed up there...should have stuck with Democracy.

Oh yeah, as we NOW CONTROL the Apostolic palace, we could wrangle a religious Diplomatic win out of this, means mass spreading of Hinduism to us, and one to Sitting Bull, just a thought.

I'm for building Libraries, Universities in all or most cities that can handle it, Observatories when available, and running scientists and building Science. Hence the switch to Caste System/ Representation. Free Speech, just to steal borders, Free Religion the 10% science, which will add up as we boost science further. Mercantilism should stay
and use with Statue of Liberty (build in Iron works).

On Sitting Bull at Friendly, we'll take a while to get a Monopoly tech on him, and if we're just Beelining Mass Media, we won't get one, unless we risk him building the U.N., we did get the +3 event, probably all gone by now..:lol: Mistake very probably, but I was focused on building research, not trade, didn't see it as a viable option in near term. Sitting Bull, who has Environmentalism as favourate civic, will more likely beeline that, with Biology, Medicine.
 
@IPEX
I totally forgot about the AP!
Actually, as things stand, WK can win the AP vote with Saladin's votes. The threat should be gone though as we will capture Saladin's cities just dropping him under the vote requirement.

The problem with AP is you need 75% of the total votes... and WK has it spread almost everywhere.
I like the idea of mass spreading Hinduism and trying to win from there. That means letting SB capture at least 1 city from WK. But, just in case, we should move forward to U.N. in case we can't win AP pope before that.
 
I like the plan for the AP :goodjob:, it actually sounds more viable than UN, just remember that it will be quite hard to get more votes that WK as those who have the religion as their state religion get votesX2. So that will be a lot of missionaries.
Why do we have to let SB capture one of WK's cities? Wouldn't it be safer to settle a city in the far north, spread hidu to it and then gift it to SB? That would have the extra effect of making him happier with us... I just don't want to let him get a foot hold in WK land if it can be avoided.

I'd also like to make a slightly more coherent plug for the SoL than my last one (which was a bit scatter brained). First off, as IPEX pointed out, in AW the AI will be a bit slower. Second the payout will be large, 25 scientists in Rep with libraries is almost 200bpt :D! Third, the opportunity cost is very minimal. Ulundi is currently building wealth and if we loose the SoL that is what we will get, except more because of the copper bonus. The 4 turns of tech time could have gone to biol, but we would have wanted to trade for it eventually, now we can trade for other techs (eg a partially teched physics or RR)
 
What's all this Crap, about settle a city, capture a city, just build a Hindu Monastry, delay Scientific Method, till built, then we can spam Missionaries, or just go back to Organized religion. ;) (so I can swap out again :lol: )

We just need more Peeps then Wang Kon, or bribe him out of Hinduism.
 
Ok... seems the team wants to give a shot at SoL so research: Democracy->SM->?
I'm making Communism the espionage target, might run some EP slider to have sufficient eps for it.
State Property will be huge for us to say the least.
Lastly, will bring Sal down to 1 city and heavily damage him. Actually, since we want to try for AP, maybe killing Saladin completely is a better move? Need team input on this one.

Micro'd a bunch of things and I'm starting my set now.
 
Kill Saladin to make his land more productive earlier.

Apostolic Palace victory, if we're the only one's running Hinduism, we're the only candidate for victory, but once we exceed 75% its off the table.

Mass media to Wang Kon, we'd only need to get Sitting Bull to Friendly.

Definately go for Statue of Liberty in Ironworks, Hold off on Scientific method, till you get a Hindu Monastery built, or again switch to Organized religion.

Steal Communism why not, probably focus all points on Wang exclusively, so we can switch religions, and monitor research.

We'd better get dome focus on Civics to hold long term, are we going for research, production, cash/science or Great people.
 
Alright played my 10-turns set, nothing too surprising happened.

T0
Micro+pillage, delete old units.
Spoiler :

Set research to Democracy, slider at 100% (3 turns)

T1
AP vote comes up... vote for ourselves in vain.
Spoiler :

Also pillage some more.
Spoiler :

Bombard "2nd in line"

T2
AP results come in... heh
Spoiler :

Start assault on "2nd in line", our CRIII canon manages to pull out luckily.
Spoiler :

Capture the city while losing some canons and muskets mostly. War Weariness goes down and research up!
Spoiler :



Bombard 4th in line

T3
Democracy in.
Spoiler :

Capture 4th in line, lost a few canons and 2 Rifles iIrc. Sal is now down to his last city.
Spoiler :


T4-7
Nothing really... raise the EP slider a bit and then resume SM research.

T8
SM in.
Spoiler :

We happen to have just enough EPs for this!
Spoiler :

First time works like a charm.
Spoiler :

Bombard Sal's last city, in case we want to finish him off.

T9
Make WK revolt into Free Religion, no more AP win worries.
Spoiler :




T10
After many nails were bitten off, forests chopped, city in starvation mode, I am proud to present the skeptics (me) with our newest wonder.
Spoiler :

Needless to say, everything looked a lot greener afterwards. I went through each city to re-assign the new specialists.

Some more info...
SB's stack in WK's land.
Spoiler :

The defense... not gonna cut it. We can always close borders if we want to but we can always do that later as well. If he takes out a few more core cities, we'll have an easier time with Sal's cities.
Spoiler :


Techs - we'll start going pretty fast now.
Spoiler :


Sal's last city can fall if we choose to.
Spoiler :


We might want to reconsider (or not) going after the AP as it will take longer than UN win in my estimation... depends on WK's ability to build it I guess which might be the hard part given his precarious situation.

Anyway, producing the first few missionaries will be hard and we'll need Organized Religion for it to work. I haven't changed civics (I wanted every turn available for SoL) but we can consider SP, OR and Emancipation (Slavery might be good for like 5 turns but it's 2 turns of revolt in/out). SP will be worth losing the specialists if we can bring SB into it as well.

The more cities SB takes from WK, the less votes we need to win for AP.

Anyway my vote is kill Saladin then spread Hinduism enough to win AP. Shouldn't be too hard, we just have to keep SB in good relations with us (stay in Judaism).

I've queued Biology for now... we might want to avoid Astronomy for a little bit because of The Colossus but it really isn't that huge.
Economics->Corporation would be good after Biology.
 
Very nice, good to see the SoL! :thumbsup:

I'd continue down the biol path for now. In terms of victory, I really see no chance in getting a UN now. WK won't have the time to build UN and SB will just demolish him. I think we should just spam missionaries and for for the AP win. Tech path should probably be towards space in the event that we either go over the line or for some reason can't get SB to vote for us.

For civics I think SP is is the way to go (saves ~200 gpt when you include inflation), we'll also need OR for the missionaries, but when we get the the limit interms of votability (should stay under b/c of city growth) switch to Pacifism.
I think we'll probably want to go for emancipation unless we force the others out of it. We could send a spy into Sal and WK to force a civic change and then get SB to swap out as well.

I see we are getting a GP in 3 turns, I'd push for a GA, with a civ as large as ours that is way better than settling and we get the civic swap for free too!

We could help out WK by gifting him a bunch of units...
 
I say Kill Saladin, he's of no real use, as a enemy, and hold up 3rd in line from working those cottages and growing.

With Wang in control of Apostolic Palace, we'd better be careful of him voting a diplomatic victory with Saladin's support, another reason to remove Saladin.

He only has to switch back to a religion civic, and with Saladin's 7 votes, with Bull taking a Hindu city, could vote himself Victor.

I say Kill Saladin, Wang CAN'T vote self diplomatic victory, but we can with Sitting Bulls support.

:goodjob: on research, wow, did it ever make a difference, Astronomy, for the Observatories 25% is 25%, or another University, and we need libraries for the Laboratory (another 25%, and 50% space ship production. )

Looks like we may get a monopoly tech on Bull after all, :wow:,but he fear's were becoming too advanced...like hey, who else we going to trade with??

Triangle tech trading now...no worries about them trading with each other. Just tech, build and spread Hinduism in ORGANIZED RELIGION. Start a golden age for civics swap, the boost is what we'd need now, for our buildings and research.

Tech's, Industrialism, for Factories, then, Medicine for Sitting Bulls favourate civic. Or are we still trying a Mass Media Beeline. Build those wonders as well, because WE CAN!!! :LOL:

Wang has Colossus, not us..so DEFINITELY go for Astronomy next for Observatories
 
I say Kill Saladin, he's of no real use, as a enemy, and hold up 3rd in line from working those cottages and growing.

With Wang in control of Apostolic Palace, we'd better be careful of him voting a diplomatic victory with Saladin's support, another reason to remove Saladin.

He only has to switch back to a religion civic, and with Saladin's 7 votes, with Bull taking a Hindu city, could vote him self Victor.

I say Kill Saladin, Wang CAN'T vote self diplomatic victory, but we can with Sitting Bulls support.

Good point. Take them all!:mwaha:

:goodjob: on research, wow, did it ever make a difference, Astronomy, for the Observatories 25% is 25%, or another University, and we need libraries for the Laboratory (another 25%, and 50% space ship production. )

Looks like we may get a monopoly tech on Bull after all, :wow:,but he fear's were becoming too advanced...like hey, who else we going to trade with??

Triangle tech trading now...no worries about them trading with each other. Just tech, build and spread Hinduism in ORGANIZED RELIGION. Start a golden age for civics swap, the boost is what we'd need now, for our buildings and research.

I don't think we need to worry about WFYABTA, if I'm right it doesn't count if he is friendly? And we'll want him there to be to make sure he votes for us too.

Tech's, Industrialism, for Factories, then, Medicine for Sitting Bulls favourate civic. Or are we still trying a Mass Media Beeline. Build those wonders as well, because WE CAN!!! :LOL:

Wang has Colossus, not us..so DEFINITELY go for Astronomy next for Observatories

No, I'm 99% sure that we've got the Colossus (in Baghdad) but I agree that that isn't really a reason to delay going for astronomy, I think that getting obervatories in our cities will be better than the Colossus now that our research slider is going to be up a bit more of the time.


I might be wrong on this one but didn't we already trigger a 1 GP Golden Age?

Somewhere around Nationalism iirc

Also, as far as I can tell we haven't used up our 1 person GA, I went back to the post where we revolted to Nationalism (found here) and I couldn't see any mention of it. Anyways, either we did or we didn't. I say we wait 3 turns and find out.


Finally, who's up next? I seem to have lost track of the roster...
 
Stochastic, your up, and no, we can use 1 great person for a golden age. I checked the 1870 AD save,and the Great Merchant would start one.

ROSTER if I may be so rude :blush:

Stochastic- is up
Meerk - is on deck
IPEX-731BA5DD06 ravenously reads these.
KOSSIN- the leader with the uncurled whip and Iron hand
Extra boss??
 
Oh, seems you're right about the GA. I just opened the 1870AD save and the GM could trigger the Golden Age by himself... so definitely trigger one.

The Colossus is worth about 50 commerce atm so getting Astronomy will not change that much in Observatories vs. Colossus. My point was we should go Economics->Corporation before Astronomy. Maybe even Assembly Line as well. After Biology of course.

Anyway, here's a suggestion:
Run 19 merchants in Uruk for 1 turn. It'll lose all of its accumulated food but not starve and as a result we'll get the Great Merchant next turn.
So, next turn trigger the Golden Age, revolt to Slavery/State Property/Organized Religion and whip away a few things. Before the GA is up, revolt to Emancipation, and possibly Universal Suffrage?

Most of the unhappy people will be gone with the war over so that's a plus.
About gifting WK units: ummm, maybe but not yet. We don't even need WK to win AP, all we need is 75% of the vote with SB's votes. Since WK isn't going to vote for us, the less Hindu cities he has, the easier we'll win. Just make sure he has at least 1 city left with the religion.
In any case, do NOT allow Sitting Bull into Hinduism. We should also stay away from the religion to keep him happy with us.

One last thing, I noticed I forgot to rebuild the pasture on the cow in Kish... get some worker turns over there.

Funnily enough we only have 9 workers for our huge empire. Not that we need more right now but if AP fails Railroads will take forever to complete.

Anyway, spread Hinduism to a city that can build Missionaries 1/turn (40 hammers - not necessarily IW city, it's building a lot of wealth for us atm) and then keep spreading it. If you have BUG look at F8 - diplomacy and add our total plus SB's. Whenever that crosses the required votes, victory is ours.

Roster

1. kossin - Just played
2. Stochastic - UP!
3. Meerk - On deck
4. IPEX-731BA5DD06

5. The Simple Mind - Auto-Skip (out)
6. mjg5591 - Auto-Skip

EDIT: @ IPEX: no worries mate!
 
OK, sounds like we have a plan!

I'll take out Sal and generally demobilize the troops (I'll save a stack of cannons+rifles for gifting just in case).

Then GA into Slavery, OR, SP, whip out a bit of infra here and there and generally spam Missionaries of both Hindu and Jewish variety. Jewish will go to SB primarily to keep him in Judaism. Hindu will go to us obviously. I'll crank out a few workers too while I'm at it.

I'll tech Biol, see what can be traded then depending on what we get from that, Econ, Corp (wallstreet in the Hindu capital now??) etc. In a solo game I'd probably get biol and then run 0% for the rest of the GA because gold has more multipliers for those extra coins, but I think I'll just go for sustainable research.

I'm thinking that with the power of SB's stack I'll close borders? SB will get a city for sure, but will be hard pressed to get another, hoping that the AI stays stupid and doesn't build transports. I know that there is some sort of "Land target rule" but I'm not sure how it works with us completely blocking SB.

For when we come out of the GA in the next set, I'm not sure about US. It will let us buy stuff, but our research will take quite a hit. I assume the Kremlin is still up for grabs? If it is I'll go for it in Ulundi so that it's cheaper if we do decide to get it.

I doubt I'll post today as I'm a bit busy, but I might get a start in the evening if there aren't any concerns about my plan.
 
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