KoS2 - There can be only war

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

Trouble with Diplomacy I see is, Wang Kon, is between Saladin and Sitting Bull (2x always war) and will be attacked in preference.

We're between Sitting Bull and Saladin, so we'll always be attacked in preference by Saladin.

ONLY Wang Kon, will attack Sitting Bull EXCLUSIVELY.

So we need to gift to Sitting Bulls worst (2nd worst Enemy) -ve diplomacy points.
Open borders trade with Wang Kon -ve Diplomacy points
Keep Saladin from storming us, or destroying him, or curtaining him, leaving Wang Kon as Sitting Bulls only enemy.

I realistically can't see a way out, I'm happy to try, but I feel Space is the only realistic viable option here.

 

[Meerk]

As I understand it, the diplo victory requires 3 things:

1. We eliminate Saladin, getting cities and pushing us to top population.
2. We get mass media in time to gift it to WK and enable him to build UN. At that point victory votes will include him and the top pop of the other civs (i.e. us!)
3. We get SB to like us enough to vote for us (in preference to abstaining).

Right?

 

[Stochastic]

OK, I’ll play in ~24hrs, I'm a bit busy atm.

Gergo has only 2 grassland cottages left to work after that it'll be coast or specialists.

Diplomacy is quite feasible here, but it'll be tricky.
Basically we need WK to build UN and SB to vote for us. After we take out Saladin, we'll be #1 in pop making us the second candidate.
To achieve this: tech straight to Mass Media, and gift the techs up to WK. This will work better if Saladin is still alive, as he's SB's worst enemy, not WK.
2. Get SB up to +8 diplo. That means:
[snip]
Space is the most secure option. When we get Vienna under our hands, spy missions will be pretty cheap with the help of the holy city.

I'd say let's try as hard as possible for Diplo as it's fastest but let's keep a lookout for space.

But Grego also needs lots more infra (gold science multipliers) and the only way that will happen in any reasonable time is through whipping. Therefore the coast wont be used much if at all. As soon as one coast is worked do a 2-3 pop whip.

I like the idea of getting WK to build the UN, very devious... In fact he might build it without us having to gift to him, he’s teching physics right now anyways. So lets just finish off BBB, then take down Saladin, maybe leave one city, and see how it goes. We need most of the techs for Diplo for Space anyways, so having narrowed it down to those two we can probably get away with coasting a bit.

I think I’ll play roughly as I suggested in my earlier post, here is the plan.

In BBB land I think I should be able to take Isag, Vienne and Verlam, I’ll be a bit rough on the Muskets, I figure they are obsolete anyways and the cannons are more valuable, finally we don’t have the cash to upgrade them anyways.

Re Kish, I’ll draft it hard and pay to upgrade the LBs. The two cannons en route I’ll throw at the stack with collateral promos assuming calvary doesn’t kill them first.

I figure Uruk and Eridu will churn out the cannons non stop, I’m tempted to get one more specialist in Uruk, it will increase time to grow by 2 turns but reduce the time to next GP by 2 as well, I’d run an engineer if I do. Keep in mind for future GMs it will probably be better to settle in Vienn, I assume that the Jewish holy city will get wallstreet.

After Tolousa’s border pops it will switch from culture to a granary, it only has one hammer so that isn’t much extra culture and the granary would be really nice.

Bibactey will get a theater whipped out instead of the zig, then it will build culture for one turn to pop and then go to the zig. Otherwise the starving pop will go to waste.

Finally is it worth risking the 12gpt trade with SB for the extra 2gpt he has available? In a single player game I would, but this is an SG so I don’t want to lose it and hinder it for everyone else.

 

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

On trades I usually try trade 2 resources, so always have 1 for roughly half gold, and 2nd it soaking up excess gold, usually the smaller trade.

Then when I feel I can get away with it, I may cancel 1, see if all gold still available, cancel 2nd and sell 1 for all gold, and start on 2nd resource soaking up excess.

Sometimes it does blow up in my face, cancel 1, all gold available, cancel 2nd, suddenly its all taken away, or hit max gold trade limits.

On Micro, I'll take your word at what you want to do, I'd still leave the hill city to last, and hit the holly city 1st. Sweep up SE then take the Hill city with MASSIVE MUSKET ASSAULT.


Don't forget Versailles is built in Verlamion, (1785 ad) the city directly below the Jewish holy city.

Yes, I agree, muskets are past use by date (I did error there), use them up, build cannons + Rifles.

 

[kossin]

re diplomacy
Leave 1 marginal Saladin city before gifting anything to WK (and make sure Sal is still his WE). Our vote+SB's = diplomatic victory. After WK builds UN, we don't need to be his buddy after and can kiss up to SB all he needs.

re plan
Sounds fair. Muskets are ok to let go, but it will cause more war weariness... just making sure you know it still exists in AW.

re Trade
2 extra gold isn't the world now that we've stabilized the economy/ He might or might not have gold to trade after cancelling the deal. I'd rather trade a secondary resource but I don't think we have any spare to trade iIrc.

 

[Stochastic]

Here is is, late but still coming.

Inherited turn 285

• I trade Cow with SB for 2gpt as that seems to be the consensus.
• Start Georg on a forge (mostly to multiply future overflow from whips but happy will be good too)
• Draft in Kish and Lagash and upgrade the Lbs.
• Over all I draft 3 rifles almost every turn, though I start to trickle off a bit towards the end to let cities grow back a bit and be more productive.

Turn 286

• IBTs Sal moves the stack to a slightly unusual spot. I’m now worried that he could go for three possible cities, Kish, Lagash and Ulundi. This could get interesting...
• I decide to keep our cannons in the circled spot, from there they can hit Sals stack if it moved towards Kish, but they are also able to redeploy to defend Ulundi and Lagash easier. They still need to stay out of range of the cavalry though.
  
  Spoiler :

  
• Kish finishes zig, starts on market.
• Coventry comes out of revolt, it will starve one pop but will get border pop in one turn if building culture so that is better than 2 pop whipping a theater.
• It seems that Sal has small numbers of elite defenders in his cities.
  
  Spoiler :

  
• I capture Bacagum, loose three canons and two muskets. Despite saying that I would be ruthless with the muskets I wasn’t enough.
  
  Spoiler :

  

  
  Bacagum has nothing in it Queue theater for whip. On the plus we now have gems so our main cities get +2

Turn 287

• IBTs fortunately Sal sends the stack next to Kish, so that eases up on my worry about being unable to defend properly. I move the cannon counter attack to the jungle so they are still out of range of the cavs.
• Apparently a heartrending ballad by an artist in Vienn is causing quite a stir culturally. I suppose it is for all their war dead.
• Tolosa gets a culture pop so I start on a granary
• Coventry pops too, its queued a zig and is at 12gpt upkeep so I keep with that.

Turn 288

• IBTs Sal starts bombarding Kish. I will wait to counter attack with cannons until we are below 10% defense.
• We get our first view of Vienn’s defense, that will be a tough nut to crack. This would have been much better to sacrifice the cannons on because of the greater number of units to do collateral too.
  Spoiler :

  

Turn 289

• Tolusa gets its granary (from whip) start on library.
• Kish is down to 28% defense.
• We see the defense of Verlamion, much easier to take down...
  Spoiler :

  

Turn 290

• Kish is down to 13%, next turn the counter attack w cannons will go ahead.
• We also runout of research cash. Down to 0%, and we are still losing 1gpt.
• Georgia gets unhappy and I have no more military police near by. So I whip out the forge for 4. That certainly isn’t optimal, but better (I think) than increasing upkeep costs for no payback.

Turn 291

• IBTs Saladin gets the jump on me and attacks with his stack now. We have a glorious victory with no losses and only 2 cavalry retreating in ignominy! I will wipe out the remnants soon.
• Lagash finishes University, starts on market.
• Georgia starts on Market.
• I decide to ease off of the draft to left cities recover a bit so that our econ can recover. Of course Ur gets it whenever possible.
• I loose one rifle attacking a cavalry at 72%, but the rest are taken out.
• Vienn is down to 7% so I’ll attack it next turn.

Turn 292
The year smoke fills Versailles and the Temple of Solomon...

• Bacagum gets its theater, will pop next turn so start on granary.
• Bibactey is out of rebellion builds culture for a one turn pop.
• I sacrifice 3 muskets to take down the only city defender rifle in Vienn to 7.3 health, this brings the odds for the CRIII cannon from 33 to 77. Attack with cannon...And win! After sacrificing a musket and one rifle I get to 59% for a CRII cannon. Attack... and withdraw! Attack with second CRII cannon at 64%... Also withdraw! Woo! Now the last cannon is at 50%, so back to using muskets. Kill a wounded rifle at 38%. But now down to 14% for more muskets. I decide to risk the cannon at 50% because the rifles are all wounded to at least 10 so the chance is actually better than that. Success! Now all that's left is some mop up
• Vienn is under new ownership! And it comes with some fun stuff too...
  Spoiler :

  

  
  I lost two more muskets at favourable odds, but whatever.
  
  
• I queue up culture for Vienn, I think that it will be able to pop in one turn that way, but the next player will have to check. If that happens than there is no point in getting a theater because it isn’t under cultural pressure from SB.
• Now for Verlamion!
• Promo some cannons for better bombard and take defense to 0. Now Monty has 50% attack, no way hosey! Time for CRII cannon suicide at 6.4%... It dies obviously, but damage to the CGII rifle so that opens up some more attacks. Try with a musket at 12% And WIN! OK, that was pure luck! That unit is officially renamed Highlander.
• I use Monty to take out the other CGII rifle. Then I loose some muskets trying to whittle away a few more points off of the defenders health. Loose two cannons on 60%, then take Verlamion too.
  
  Spoiler :

  
• I queue a theater and send Lysander down to sew Highlander and Monty back together.

Turn 293

• IBTs Sal attacks Kish with 2 more calvary, I laugh.
• BBB shows up with a stack of 4 highly promoted rifles and attacks some muskets in transit. I don’t laugh as every single one dies and I’m starting to run low on units to deal with BBB. In the counterattack I loose a barrage II cannon but then take them out with muskets. This causes Hainz Gueriden to be born. I start a mace in Eridu thinking that I’ll grab another city attacking unit.
• I realise that Lysander would be better off in Vienn, so back he goes.

Turn 294
Lick wounds.

Turn 250.

• Haven’t drafted, have started to collect units to attack Sal. We could probably send the stack in Kish now if we wanted to. I’d suggest Bagdad first for the Colossus, that will be a major boost for us.
• SB has sent in a stack of Calvary to attack Pyong. I don’t know if it will win or not, we’ll have to see, WK has some good CGIII etc rifles in there.
  Spoiler :

  
• We still don’t have steam power, we are ~400 gold off from 100% researching it. I think we should stay at 0% until Vienn comes out of rebellion (4 turns).

The save:

 

[The Simple Mind]

Hi all, unfortunately real life has severely cut into my civ time and I'm not going to be able to continue in this SG. Please permanently skip me.

atb

TSM

 

[kossin]

Sorry to hear TSM. Was good to have you, take care of yourself.

~~~

Nice nice !

Some micro:
Uruk: Engineer -> Plains hill mine
Eridu: next turn can re-start working workshop and mine
Ur: Windmill->Town, farm->town. I know it's not optimal for drafting but the wars are won by now. All we need to kill Saladin is plenty of canons.
Lagash: plains farm -> gold mine
Kish: needs a few improvements... windmill/workshops. Don't like plains cottages.
Nibru: coast -> workshop. It'll never be able to whip the bank otherwise
Camulodunum: plains windmill -> iron mine, farm -> grassland windmill (reduces border pop by 1 turn)
Durnovaria: grass windmill -> riverside plains windmill (1 more )
Tolosa: omg batman -> work those gems and the town
Coventry: we need to pump culture here to extend its usefulness a bit. (Theatre+Library+build culture) 500 should give us a good fighting chance.
Bagacum: already said but work on its culture too.

War: More everything but some garrison from Vienne to the cow tile in our culture nearby. Lysander goes to heal Verlamion's units, we move out on BBB next turn.

Send the troops home after clearing out BBB, we have enough units massed in Kish to start moving on Saladin.

We don't need as much garrison as we do everywhere now, I think we can delete some of the older units in cities with happy cap room.

After Steam Power is in, we should aim pretty much straight to MM and look to get Communism in a trade if possible. (Kremlin buildage might make it troublesome however).

I think Oxford U will go in one of the former BBB cities, they seem to have the best research output capacity. Not sure it will be much help in a diplo victory but should it not work we'll have a good base to go after Space.

So... kill all but 1 of Saladin's cities so he remains SB's worst enemy... gift WK up to MM (check he isn't SB's worst enemy in the process).
Building wealth in production cities will shortern the time needed to reach it.

Otherwise, I'd suggest to convert to Judaism pretty soon + OR to spread the religion around in our cities. The spread will benefit us in any case, with a Bank each missionary will be worth 2 gold. (3 with Wall Street).

Cancel the wine trade with WK, we have our own source now.
As soon as we have enough units across WK to take care of Saladin, we should cancel every deal with WK. This will make it so SB doesn't ask us to cancel trades with him so nobody will be mad at us.

The roster is looking a bit thin but the game is on its last legs anyway.

1. kossin
2. Stochastic - Just played
3. Meerk - UP!
4. IPEX-731BA5DD06 - On deck

5. The Simple Mind - Auto-Skip (out)
6. mjg5591 - Auto-Skip

 

[Meerk]

Looks like a good set. We are closing in on the end of BBB.

I have the save, and it looks like we have a fair number of comments. If I have time, I may play tonight, otherwise expect something tomorrow.

A couple questions:

• My take is we should probably close borders with SB now, before he gets a lot of traction. However, that may be a mistake if Sal is massing another stack. What do you all think?
• We are starting to see emancipation unhappiness. Should we consider doing anything about it? (Our plans don't currently include teching demo.) It's not pressing in any case.

 

[kossin]

Let borders remain open, our army needs a way back and there' no guarantee culture will be enough to allow us passage when we need it.

Can always close them when a huge stack enters our borders.

Only WK has Democracy so it's not a problem.

 

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

Emancipation, a flat 20% culture rate can cure that problem.

On gifting cities to Wang Kon, we'd want to raise any cottages Saladin has BEFORE we gift the city, otherwise Wangs going to turn into a monster.

Oxford Uni, Tolosa, it has 2x Gems, 1x dye, 1x town, 2 hills, and more cottage to mature.

Versailles will solve some of the maintenance problems, but Constitution, are we going to trade for it? its 19x3 or 57 from specialists we'd be getting. That's worth 1 turn of research alone.

0% till Vienn comes out of rebellion sounds good, all the micro, I'd work some hammer tiles where possible when building commerce buildings, to get out faster.

I think We're looking at growth, we have up to 10 Happy cap once we eliminate Boadicea, only 2 cities to go....its sooo exciting....

By the time you've taken them and get the troops back to Camulodunum, we'll have culture on borders.

On Sitting Bull, just wait till we see a stack of Death, he seems to be only stacking Calvary in border city.

Plus we'd like him to take some heat from Saladin for us.no

 

[Stochastic]

After Steam Power is in, we should aim pretty much straight to MM and look to get Communism in a trade if possible. (Kremlin buildage might make it troublesome however).

So... kill all but 1 of Saladin's cities so he remains SB's worst enemy... gift WK up to MM (check he isn't SB's worst enemy in the process).
Building wealth in production cities will shortern the time needed to reach it.

Otherwise, I'd suggest to convert to Judaism pretty soon + OR to spread the religion around in our cities. The spread will benefit us in any case, with a Bank each missionary will be worth 2 gold. (3 with Wall Street).

I agree with the micro, I'm afraid I got a bit of tunnel vision towards the end of the set.

I'm not so sure about belining to MM. WK is already teching physics, we should be able to trade SP for SciMeth+gold, then if we get RR, we should be able to trade that for Consti+Astron with SB then Physics from WK as neither SB nor WK have it. At that point, if WK hasn't got electricity I agree to going straight for MM, but IMO there isn't any point in researching the techs WK already has.

A couple questions:

• My take is we should probably close borders with SB now, before he gets a lot of traction. However, that may be a mistake if Sal is massing another stack. What do you all think?
• We are starting to see emancipation unhappiness. Should we consider doing anything about it? (Our plans don't currently include teching demo.) It's not pressing in any case.

I agree with everyone else's comments about SB, right now he doesn't have all that much in WK's land. If Infantry start crossing we'll have to close.
Like you said emancipation isn't pressing right now. However, if we pop a GE, I think we should seriously consider making a strong push for Democracy and the SoL. Mercantalism+SoL and every city of a large empire on the same continent just screams rep to me.

 

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

not every city, 2 are off shore islands... but EVERY MAJOR CITY.

REPUBLIC..REPUBLIC..its only a whisper.......

 

[Meerk]

IBT

Promoted Heinz Guderian CRIII rifle with leadership.

Micro as advertised.

Moved a musketman towards Gepid to get a peek.

1852
Our scout was killed, but BBB's rifle was left in the open and severely weakened. Easy pickens for Monty, who get'kills it flawlessly.

SB loses most of his army near PY.

1854

Keep pumping more cannons in preparation for fighting Sal, built at Eridu, Uruk, and Z.

Kish poisoned.

Set research to 100% for Steam Power.

Also, see another stack of Sal's

1856
Not much. Sal moves closer
I bomb gepid.

1858
Kish Market -> grocery
Tol Bank -> uni

About to attack Gepid

During the fighting, we lose 3 cannons and 2 muskets. But...

Spoiler :

On the western front, I make a :smoking: move, and leave a cannon out in the open (previously queued before Sal was nearby).

Also, I begin bombing Duro

1860

I queue railroad, but set research to 0%.

Slave revolt in Gergorvia.

I pay.

Verlamion done rebellion. I whip a theater, and queue culture as the first thing.

SB to the rescue of my cannon!

Spoiler :

Meanwhile, I start the assault of durocortorum. (I forgot the initial SS, here is after I sacced a cannon and musket on it).

After losing 4 Muskets, 1 WE, and 1 cannon...

Spoiler :

I decide to keep it.

And BBB is done!



I dismiss a fair number of units, pushing our GPT up considerably. I send the remaining units back towards the western side of the map, but it is going to take a while.

1862

Tacitus thinks we are great:

SB kills Sal's stack, but loses most of his in the process.

Heinz kills a straggler to get another level.

1864

Columbus born

I start him trekking towards SB's capitol.

I revolt OR.

We see sal's next stack

I leave a worker underneath several rifles on a hill near Kish.

1866

Sal attacks that, fails to kill it, and severely weakens his stack in the process. I wipe it out with the stack in Kish. Time to kill Sal. Units not involved in fighting are sent forward towards Sal (several rifles and all the cannons in Kish).

I convert to Judaism.

1868

I whip 3 Jewish Missionaries.

I continue to advance towards Sal.

1870

What's this?? Yuck!

Spoiler :

I pay.

Duro comes out of revolt. Not starving, amazingly.

Spoiler :

A spy destroys the rice field near Kish. Several workers are nearby, so should be a quick fix.

Here's the war front:

50-49!!

Spoiler :

We can officially close borders with SB without problems.

 

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

I'll leave time for some comments and thoughts to filter through, well done, how apt, that the one who begun the war, ended the war as well.

Sitting bull, has NO CANNON/ Artillery in those attacking stacks, do we let him through, so Wang can kill them, he's got a stack healing in Kish now.

The Merchant if for Deficit research, I understand, but do we trade for constitution, or hold out for Communism. Sitting Bull already has Railroad. Do we even switch to Assembly line for Factories or railroads first.

Saladin has no Iron, so NO cannons, unless Wang trades him some Iron.

Micro, I'll have to go about the cities and adjust, build more rifles to kill Saladin, and just delete once he's gone.?? As well as Cannons and such, only need 1/city then.

build 4 or 8 knights for 1 or 2 pillaging stacks, of the towns, don't want to give them to Wang do we?? or do we??? (sorry I'd pillage)

Ulundi - Aqueduct 1 turn, then alternate Cannon, Knight.
Ur - Levee, its past drafting need now, work coal
Eridu - University once cannon/knight need is past. (3 needed for Oxford uni)
Uruk - Cannon/Knight, reduce merchants.
Durocortorum - Culture to gather fish and pigs, 5 turns
Gepid - Culture till gathers Clams and pigs
Verlamion - Engineer instead of Artist (30 Culture, 100%), levy next (7 tiles)
Vienne - Wall street, Settle all Great merchants there from now on??
Bagacum - Farm that Jungle tile, levy 1st (10 river tiles worked).
Bibracte - Barracks and pumps out Rifles, or maces and upgrade (11 experience).
Coventry - University (forge 1st?), run artist.
Gergovia - Grocer 1st, Market 2nd before lighthouse, run merchant
Tolosa - University, Market and Grocer next
Isca - Knights for pillage
Durnovaria - University (for Oxford) run scientist, then Grocer.
Camulodunum - University for Culture only, then Culturally eat into Sitting Bull
Zimbir - Knights for Pillaging, fit in grocer.
Bad-Tibra - forge then Grocer, then Ziggurat.

Oxford and wall street built in Vienne??? (Jewish holy city)

Build Forbidden Palace in Camulodunum?? or run State property (food for water mills, and levee's all over.)

Short term, kill Saladin down to 1 city, keep borders open with Sitting bull till Cannons start showing up. Do we make trades with Wang Kon, or don't want to antagonize Sitting Bull.

Send all rifles to Saladin, replace with Muskets, and send out Jewish Missionaries.

Look at building a city by the Elephants, and try flipping Wangs 2 cities to us?? National Hermitage city

Spoiler :

http://img145.imageshack.us/my.php?image=natianalhermitage.png

View attachment 244397

 

[Meerk]

Oh, the other thing I wanted to mention is I did not look at making tech trades really, but clearly we should.

I don't think we are planning to gift cities to WK, are we? Am I missing something?

I think there are other cities that are better for Oxford than Vienne. I do agree it's the right place for Wall Street. Some of the earlier cities look like quite promising commerce centers. However, they do need population and infrastructure to reach their potential.

Also, given that, I think another priority is to send out a lot of missionaries. At least one of the current three should go to a relatively high-production, western city. Maybe Ulundi? And Eridu/Uruk? We clearly don't want to whip them in general...

I would also send the western spy further into Sal's area before building much more military. I suspect he does not have very much, and it's possible that our current 2 lead stacks, plus some veterans from the BBB campaign, will suffice. On the other hand, it may be worthwhile to keep pumping cannons from Eridu/Uruk.

 

[kossin]

Nice set!

Let's trade with WK now that we can. SP<->SM.

Agree with IPEX's micro propositions but I'd prioritize Levees where they can be built. We likely won't be running 100% gold for a long time anymore, so this depreciates gold multipliers, don't build any more banks. Other than that, go through cities, work towns if available, switch specialists around a bit (no point running artists in non-borderline cities, and run artists in border cities).

We're just a bit ahead of SB in world pop, it shouldn't be a problem to stay there but I think the days of drafting are over. Consider Free Speech maybe?

There are still quite a few units as garrison in former BBB cities that aren't required. Ship them west for saccing or delete them.

We don't even need to kill Saladin for victory. Our current pop + SB = 72% of the world pop enough for a diplo win. As a result, I think we should gun straight for MM, with maybe a detour to Medicine if we can't buddy SB enough, but fair trade + religion should do it. In any case, we can still start killing him for fun. With GM money and building wealth in a few cities, we should have enough gold for a long time.
Other than that... gift WK up to MM and gift a few things to SB to get him at least up to +8... game won.

 

[Stochastic]

Nice! I can almost taste the victory!

When I look at the demographics screen it says we are 2nd in pop. Am I missing something Kossin?

I'd put OU in either Tolusa or Gergovia, I don't think it is worth it in Vienn because of low base commerce. Wallstreet definitely in Vienn though.

Re GM, If we settle in Vienn it will take ~95 turns to recoup the 1700 gold we'd get from the mission. While we are nearing the end, I think that is worth it, though it is very tight. Right now we need ~128 turns of breakeven research to beline to MM. However the gold we'll get from the mission isn't enough to deficit spend our way to a monopoly tech. So I'd vote for settle.

I'd second SP for SciMeth (maybe some gold too?)

Then maybe try for Biology? I know that Kossin wants to go straight for MM, but WK has physics now, so maybe getting bio for an extra population boost and trade for partial Physics +gold isn't all that off the track?

I don't think there is much point in going for SP, we are currently at 56gpt for City distance, not all that large in the grand scheem of things. Running free market or Mercantilism probably gets back way more beakers/gold in our large empire.

 

[Stochastic]

Actually I just realised that we don't even have Astronomy or Optics! So probably those should be next. Maybe put a few turns into optics and then trade WK for that +SciMeth for SP?

 

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

We can get Scientific Method and Optics for Steam Power +385 gold, but are we going to research Astronomy for the Observatory?? or not. Wang HAS NO GOLD!! DEFICIT ECONOMY

Are we going to gift the ex-Saladin cities to Wang Kon?? or not..if we're keeping them, maybe forbidden Palace over there. Pillage Towns?? yes or no?? (I'll pillage)

Are we eliminating Saladin completely, or leaving with 1 city??

Do we shut borders with Bull, and just leave Wang open??

Ox Uni still to be discussed, won't be built/Available for a while anyway. Wall Street needs corporation, which needs constitution (Rep)

I'd rather trade for Constitution, tech Scientific method/biology and run rep Scientists/specailists 21x3=63 in Mercantilism.

Civics's Representation+Free Speech+Caste System (whipping over with)

Main production cities don't need Judaism, but our border cities and cities needing to build infrastructure. Spam it more to sitting Bull, I'm surprised he hasn't converted to Buddhism as yet??

I'll build 1 settler to build that flip city as well.