KoS2 - There can be only war

Calvary only need Rifling...oh horse back riding, horses, military tradition.

7 turns away (crosses fingers) and Boadicea has PREVIOUSLY declared war on Wang, so..interesting, doubt he'll trade Steel to her now, or Chemistry for that matter.

Going to play set (10 turns) now, nothing dramatic that you all up in arms about.
 
KoS2 tales of Celtic war's


T+0


Inherited turn.


I attack with the cannon, promoted to Barrage 2, as if it dies it dies, if it lives..well, it'll do the maximum stack damage, and it DIES..:gripe: 45 %, 2nd cannon at 68% dies as well...Lose a pike at 65%...Next pike at 89% loses over 70% health..NOW I clean up the rest of the stack, very expensive undertaking.


Move some troops out of Kish, towards front line with reinforcements.


T+1


Nothing happened IBT's but I foolishly let a pike out on its own, by the new conquest, troops are healing, and further troops are moving to take the back cities, bombardment has commenced. Draft in 3 cities, whip in 2 to complete builds.


T+2


well, it continues, I lose a Trebuchet in the field at 67%, clean up the Musket and Trebuchet I lost against.


I clean up with the Great General, who's now got leadership as the promotion, he'll go to a Knight, BEFORE I trade for Rifling.


Sight Sitting Bulls, 2nd Stack, even scarier then the 1st, I close borders. He's taken Pyongyang, and will keep Saladin entertained for a long while there.


Spoiler :
2ndstack.jpg



Troops move into place from UR to begin assault, as well as building road.


2 stables and bank in Lagesh built from overflow, now going onto War Elephants, 1 turn overflow, drafted.


T+3


I take Durnovaria with NO LOSSES :dance: for a change, but I nearly ran out of attacking troops to take the city, killed 2 mace-men, 3 Longbow man, 3 Muskets and 1 catapult and a knight. I foolishly thinking I've selected Trebuchets only, leave Camulodunum undefended :eek:


More troops are moving to take out Isca from Ur then onwards to the front lines.


Saladins Stack of doom has been spotted, so I hold some troops in the borders towards him, awaiting events.

Spoiler :
SaladinsSoDT3.jpg



T+4


IBT's Saladins stack targets Pyongyang, and takes a lot of damage as does Sitting Bull, who's still has better stack.
Boadicea, DOESN'T take back Camulodunum, due to my :smoke: move, so is hard up for troops now, and is retreating her knights, probably for a last ditch stack attack. Better hold off till they all can merge I feel., push on to Tolosa (I'm 24hr's from :lol:) with Trebuchets only, so wait till cannons to take city.


Building roads, and drafting, and building cannons.


Check the Tech screen, Sitting Bull, has Rifling, and is friendly with Boadicea, rut roh. Not much we can do about that, instant Celtic rifles now.


I now have to re-open borders with Sitting Bull, as his Culture has stopped our army from being fed by reinforcements from the homelands. I also nab 1 worker from Boadicea :thanx:


Everyone's in Mercantilism, and its killing our income,


Spoiler :
Costs.jpg



Sitting Bulls wiped out the rest of Saladins Stack for us, and I go about adjusting finances, to go form -50 :gold: to -10 :gold: per turn. Reinforcements are moving to join the assault upon Tolosa.


T+5


Wang Kon, come by demanding I cancel deals with Sitting Bull,


Spoiler :
won1.jpg


won2.jpg


with my eye on Rifling in 3 turns, I pause to think long and hard, with regret I say


:sad: No I can't, I need the gold and access :sad:


Spoiler :
Phew!!! lucky, still willing to trade with us


won3.jpg





I attack Isca with a city raider 2 cannon at 28% and it
Spoiler :
:dance: withdraws :dance:



Hmm I send in the rest of the troops, this city is holding up the advance;


A mace attacks at 20% and loses, damm longbow man,
Musket next, 25% (longbow again) WINS!!!
Musket V's Mace 36%, loses (Hmm mace wasn't even scratched)
Musket V's Mace (30%) wins!!
Musket V's Longbow man (67%) wins, gains city garrison 3
Musket V's Musket 98% Winner and finish off with
Garrison troop longbow, v's Trebuchet 93%.


Spoiler :
Isca.jpg



Take Isca, and swing all new troops to Tolosa.


Been playing Dumb to now, only just realize I should have advanced through Sitting Bulls lands, save's 3 turns, of Trudging.


T+6


I spot another SoD from Sitting Bull, Wang is DEAD if we let it through, but we need to advance our attacking stack 1 more turn, fortunately, its still in Bulls lands. All this canceling open borders, won't keep us in the good books, and I'm seriously terrified of a Sitting Bull Declaration of war.


Move troops to begins bombarding Tolosa, and running troops to the front lines, Camulodunum, will have to go full on Culture, to grab back access to Boadicea's lands. We may be hindered in attacking forces for a while now.


T+7


Boadicea's is Broken, I start to hold off on drafting, cities at limit, and finances are being stretched out. Plenty of offensive troops available now. Switching to commerce builds now, as we'll need to recover the economy badly. Theaters (+1 dye), Grocers, and university, are queued. Troops move into Boadicea's lands, no more reinforcements, as I have to close borders with Sitting Bull, he'll own BOTH Saladin and Wang with that stack.


Spoiler :
SittingBullSoDNo2.jpg



I pick off 3 of Saladins camel archers, seeking to flee battle, for some easy points and promotions (1 away)


I hold off on closing borders for 1 more turn, as its a 50/50 bet if bounced back to own town (Warwick 5) or to the town taken (Pyongyang 6), Oooohhhhhh....just enough. Think I missed whipping Camulodunum for 1 turn.


Just realized I've been sending all troops to the front, didn't send any to the follow up city, so Camulodunum is starving, huge error on my part, cost 3 turns or population points at least. As such, I close borders immediately, we have plenty of cannons by Tolosa, and we'll have a clear route into Boadicea from our lands now, but still cut off Culturally. AARRGGHH, can't cancel open borders, can't beg any gold either.


T+8




Bombard Tolosa's defenses down to 0% rest some city raider cannons from the bombardment, move troops to take Gergovia, which I completely forgot to do, so focused on hitting Tolosa. Move Camel archer picking troops back home, Pike lost 90% health at 87.7% attack...


Remember to trade Wang Kon for rifling, nearly forgot again,


Spoiler :
Rifling.jpg



Should have been researching into it, could have gotten something else thrown in for it better, but at our research rate. Bleeding gold at 18/turn


T+9




.IBT's Boadicea's get the Infamous 'Instant Rifles', must have been in retaliation for trading steel to Wang Kon. Looks like the Cannons will have to actually fight now. Plus side is, they lose the fortification bonuses.


1st city raider 2 at 30% wins,
2nd at 45 % loses,
3rd at 45% again wins,
4th at 10.2 strength, 45% loses ,
5th at 76% city raider 1 wins against a longbow,
6th at 79% wins against a knight,
Followed up by the 4 Trebuchets, all wining at 80% and increasing odds to high 90's.


Muskets to attack;


Game crashes due to Alt-tabing arrrgghhh....reload.


I messed up somehow, lost 1 extra Trebuchet, oh well, NOW I send in the muskets. Nah, send in 3 Barrage Cannons..stuff it.


Pike at 74%, went in V's Catapult, victory, and now has formation promotion.
6 Muskets attack at 97.6% and all are victorious for 2 promotion points and 5/5
8 more Muskets attack at 99.? % and all win for 1 point, most gaining next promotions.
Great General attacks at 92% and wins, with leadership gains 6 points.


Tolosa is taken


Spoiler :
Tolosa.jpg



T+10


Put a few builds into cities, as I whipped for hammer overflow last turn, feel free to change them, EXCEPT THAT ONE!!!!! you know which one. (:lol:)


no troops moved, I really messed up on the follow up stacks..doh!!!


Boadicea's seems to be broken, even with rifles, she's broken woman. Just a matter of rolling her up now. Recovered the economy somewhat, from losing 50 gold/turn to small loss now.


Whipped Camulodunum hard, got a Theater, library and a Colosseum (overflow only, though whipped again) in 3 turns, needs to pump that Culture.




Save attached, not happy, tried to play so carefully, but ended up making some mistakes.


Forgetting the follow up attack on Gergovia and going through Sitting Bulls lands, so focused on closing borders. Oh well, do so in 3 or 4 turns, don't know what happened to that stack??


Spoiler :

Ahh there it is

thereitis.jpg





Doh!!!! :dubious: Great General in Uruk or next one down, waiting to be used.


May need to play an extra 2 turns to get us on a even Number, sitting on turn 273 now..


View attachment 243301
 
Very entertaining report IPEX. :goodjob:

I'll take it and get us back into an even number turn.

A few things:
-you didn't micro Uruk to Merchants right away but waited 3 turns instead :nono:
-after whipping cities you don't want to be running specialists but grow back when the happy cap allows it.
-3 turns with Rifling, but all we have to show is 1 Rifle? Forgot to draft every turn?
-banks before markets/grocers for gold multipliers. Economy is in the dumps atm.
-whipping HE city and IW city aren't great. They don't grow back fast and it slows down subsequent units
-Elephants? How are we going to upgrade them again? We don't have MT, no means of researching it and no gold to upgrade them. What we need are canons and rifles. I'm sure as hell not spending a trade mission on trading for MT.
-very nice warring. We need more canons to keep going now however. The few we have on the front aren't going to cut it very soon.

Here's my plan: Correct resource deals. It's pretty hectic right now. We can get silk from SB for bananas and stop trading 2 resources to SB for his gold.

Improve economy: get cities growing again on commerce tiles if possible. Drafting when possible. GT city should be drafted every turn regardless. Ziggurats/Banks where helpful.

War: The first stack needs some healing and a bit of upgrading (don't know where the gold will come from but at least Trebs->Canons). Only units to be built from now are canons and rifles. Mostly canons as we have a bunch of troops already and Draft can take care of rifles.
Next cities: the secondary stack will head to Bibracte next. Yes secondary. Reinforcements will be able to catch up to the main stack later and it has other duties, namely capturing the Christian shrine [Coventry] and more importantly, Jewish shrine[Vienne]. Coventry has several cottages so it's a good city to get. It'll probably be under some cultural pressure but it's bound to happen at some point.
The war with BBB is won imo so economy first. Her production is pretty much crippled and she looks to be in defensive mode anyway. Verlamion has Versailles so it's another good city to get.
If we had more canons, I'd split the main stack into 2 but it's not happening right now.

Techs: I think we need to start thinking about Communism. Steam Power should be a good trading chip, providing we have someone to trade it for!

OB with SB: Wang is broken. Unless Saladin sends some stacks to attack SB's, he's pretty much dead. Any other stacks will be denied passage until his current is destroyed.

Too bad we lost the spy in BBB's territory, it was good to have eyes there.
 
Looks like a lot of progress on BBB! Very nice.

Should Dunro perhaps be building culture as well? It seems like we will have a hard time keeping borders closed with SB if we can't get reinforcements past the mountain by Camul.
 
Very entertaining report IPEX. :goodjob:
I absolutely agree with that. :)

Next cities: the secondary stack will head to Bibracte next. Yes secondary.
I assume you mean after it captures the city it is beside. (I looked at the save this morning before going to work, but have forgotten the name.)
OB with SB: Wang is broken. Unless Saladin sends some stacks to attack SB's, he's pretty much dead. Any other stacks will be denied passage until his current is destroyed.

That seems appropriate. At this point I think the biggest threat to win is SB. We need Sal/WK to recover a little.
 
Looks like a lot of progress on BBB! Very nice.

Should Dunro perhaps be building culture as well? It seems like we will have a hard time keeping borders closed with SB if we can't get reinforcements past the mountain by Camul.

Yes I did that (I did some micro on my IHT but I'll play tomorrow at the earliest).

SB will probably not show up with another stack for a while so hopefully we can either open up a pass by then or have enough units on that side.

Yes, 2nd stack captures Gergovia and reinforcement will meet it there... then Bibracte.
 
I’ll third the “nice report” IPEX! Nicely done pushing hard.
One comment about the game, you seemed to be worried about SB declaring on us at one point, my understanding (Kossin may correct this though) is that each team is locked in either of war/peace and can’t change attitudes.

Kossin, I like the plan, especially about banks first.

Meerk said:
Should Dunro perhaps be building culture as well? It seems like we will have a hard time keeping borders closed with SB if we can't get reinforcements past the mountain by Camul.

Yes I did that (I did some micro on my IHT but I'll play tomorrow at the earliest).

I'm reluctant to change Dun from library to culture this turn. I'd prefer to get the overflow multiplied by creative and then switch next turn, just throwing that idea out...

Some other culture related points, Cam should work an artist over the spy and Toulusa can get a culture pop in one turn if it builds culture instead of a Theater. Even if that results in one turn of starvation that is better than whipping a theater.

Meerk said:
I absolutely agree with that. :)
At this point I think the biggest threat to win is SB. We need Sal/WK to recover a little.

SB will probably not show up with another stack for a while so hopefully we can either open up a pass by then or have enough units on that side.

Agree on the delicacy of closing OB with SB asap (4 turns) because we need WK alive (so many acronyms:crazyeye:!) if we want any chance of a Diplo victory. With our current tech rate (though it will improve a bit) I really don't want to get into a space race with SB. Hopefully Saladin will help us out by attacking SB as well, but I'm not optimistic. (I guess Sal never heard of the enemy of my enemy is my friend :lol:)

For our great general I think we should build a mace in a city with a settled GG, attach our spare gg, promote to city raider III and combat I. Then get free upgrade to Rifle. That will help take out a top city defender (eg one/two rifles in a city where the rest are muskets/LBs) so that our forces can keep moving and cannon casualties are kept to a minimum. The next promo should be Leadership. I suggest the slightly unconventional combat I before leadership because the next promo is 1 xp away and we want it to survive! Also, we aren't going to be in war much after this (only Sal left) so I don't think settling/defender/healer/xp farm would be good choices.

We should get a settler ready if we want to grab the white dot east of Vienn. Otherwise SB culture will probably overwhelm the spot.

Finally, I'm going on a trip this weekend so I'm not going to be posting. I might put one more in today if there is something else I want to say, but other than that I'm gone 'till Monday
 
1) I didn't draft as most cities were at happy cap, and another -3 "hell no we won't go" would push them into loss of production/gold, besides enough of an army to kill Boedicea I thought, not drafting National theater city was an error granted.
2) I went infrastructure builds to recover economy, move army out of city and we're losing 50 gold/turn. Banks, we have 3, I think I built if has bank, or going for quickest return.
3) Thought just have 1 main stack, 2ndary stack will just follow up, and take out of way cities, can split of main stack to supplement, and reinforcements are coming.
4) Camulodunum, needs to pump the culture, Dunorvia, should be ok, but we need access around that mountain, and Sitting Bulls over 25% already, we need to beat that BEFORE we Eliminate Boedicea.
5) I'm not great on micro, tile assignments. I never will be. Things like Great merchants for trade missions I never do, so never too urgent to pump one out, UNLESS I'm aiming for a Food Corp. Whipping I've explained, I am heavy handed.
Lastly I was trying to right economy, with army in field, gold running out, didn't want sudden desertions of our troops. Have to look at big picture, I wanted production first, then righted economy, I probably was slow, and deserve the :nono: but, cant' have it TOO EASY..:lol:

P.S. Ele's were just for Anti Calvary units, 12 (50%) only V's 15 and cheaper to build (Numbers), Muskets, well, with cannons, they'll kill rifles, couldn't afford upgrades, but SHOULD have built more rifles, but time to get to front, better to upgrade a Musket or 3, once city come out of revolt..6 of one 1/2 dozen of other, won't get either.
 
I'll post more when I get home ...
When building Culture 1 turn away from the next level, there's a 'bug' that allows double hammers to be produced, first time on culture second time on the queued building. It works with food too if queue is worker/settler. It's not overly documented but if you search hard enough you'll find it

WE get 50% against mounted, so that's 12 vs 15. Rifles have an innate 25% so they're just way better.

Don't worry IPEX, you did a great job. Getting a GM now would be a blessing so we should put our efforts into generating one.... the sooner the better.

We're in always peace with SB and WK yes.

EDIT:
Once we start building wealth and science multipliers, the economy will be fine.

Here's a link to said culture bug:
http://fastmoves.wordpress.com/2009/12/17/tricks-1-the-culture-bug/
 
I think I understand the bug now. Before the culture expands, the city has only the inner ring to work, and it does that. When that causes the culture to expand, the game says "oh, more tiles available to work, recalculate which to work." The bug is that after the recalculation, it gives you the benefits of the new hammers/food to the next item in the queue.

Is that right?
 
I don't know the actual reason behind the bug, that might be it for all I know.
It does mention that you have to be careful with the governor assignment though as that could potentially make the bug not work.
 
IHT - t273
-do proposed changes: draft, micro, upgrade trebuchets, heal main stack, re-negotiate resource deals

t274
Every turn is basically:
draft GT city
move troops
check cities that have grown for tile assignment
check for whipping buildings

t275
Start the attack on Gergovia. Canons first then mop up.
Spoiler :




t276
Boudi shows up with a mini stack. I expect her to attack Tolosa but never does in the end.
Spoiler :

SB shows up with another important stack. I'll wait one more turn to close borders.
Spoiler :


t277
BBB is harassing our main stack with rifles. I think she killed about 5 units in all this way. Nothing too bad really.
Spoiler :

I close borders with SB.
Spoiler :


t278
nada

t279
Yes, a GM is born! Send to Cahokia for trade mission.
Spoiler :

Capture Coventry this turn as well at the cost of a few canons.
Spoiler :

Too bad the shrine sucks. Vienna should be nicer however.


Also get first view of Bibracte's defenses this turn.
Spoiler :

As proposed, I make a CRIII rifle to help with the warring. He hasn't gotten to the front yet however.
Spoiler :




t282
GP can enter territory with closed borders. I spot a rather frightening sight in SB's land.
Spoiler :
Infantry!

Just as SB is about to capture Seoul, Saladin shows up and wipes his stack off :eek:
Spoiler :

Of course this means it's time to re-open borders with SB.
Spoiler :


t283
At the cost of 3 canons, 1 musket and 1 War Elephant, Bibracte is ours!
Spoiler :

With its 4 settled GGs.



t284
nada

t285
Trade mission is complete, 1700:gold: in the bank, making our total about 2700 -> almost enough for Steam Power (or w/e we choose)
Spoiler :


Saladin is close to Kish with his stack. He only has 1 Trebuchet so we can reinforce the city quite a bit. No sighting of any SB SoD since opening borders.
Spoiler :


Here are our 2 stacks.
Spoiler :

Targeting Bagacum (:lol:) next turn... didn't know the city existed, it was a surprise I guess Vienna has to be delayed just a little bit.


Cursor is over the reinforcement stack to the left, selected units in Bibracte.



Total units. I deleted a few obsolete units to reduce unit maintenance. We're a bit low on canons to finish the job and rifles number is steadily increasing. GT city is pretty dry atm, I've been focusing it on commerce (the 2 towns) rather than food.
Spoiler :


Finally, tech situation. Not too good but it'll improve quite a bit in like 50 turns.
Spoiler :


SB recently went into Free Speech which will make securing the mountain pass more difficult (currently 23% SB/9% us)... but it doesn't really matter anymore. We have enough units left on that side to clean up BBB imo and it's likely we won't close borders for a little bit with SB anyway.

Happiness is under control everywhere, although it's a bit more touchy in a few cities. I don't think we need to be drafting too seriously anymore, although it'd be nice to get rid of Saladin ASAP.

1. kossin - Just played
2. The Simple Mind - UP!
3. Stochastic - On deck
4. Meerk
5. IPEX-731BA5DD06
6. mjg5591 - Auto-Skip
 
Looks nice Kossin. Great progress on the finances and war.

Some random questions:

1. Why are we working a spy in Gergovia? Is it too far away from the front for an Artist to be useful? Should we make a library or market instead of a lighthouse? Working water tiles there (in preference to cottage tiles) does not seem promising to me. Am I missing something?
2. On the topic of espionage: we have the EP to steal a teach from WK. Is it worth sending a spy over his way? If we don't plan to do that, should we move points around to get a better picture of others' research/demo?
3. Why is Ulundi building a rifle? Isn't the typical plan to build cannons and draft rifles? Seems like we are a little short of cannons at the moment.

Anyway, looks like you have crushed BBB almost entirely. Fantastic!
 
1. Too far yes. Probably we'll be whipping coastal tiles in the future.
2. I'd like to steal Sci. Method if possible... not enough EP for that right now I think.
3. Need to reinforce Kish against Saladin
 
I'd leave Bagacum to last, as its on a hill, and rest are on flat lands are they not. Won't get much production out of that city.

Take her core cities, Vienne (Jewish shrine and her current capital city. Then role up the rest of the South East, leaving Bagacum to last, won't matter as much if we waste more troops there, and hopefully she'll spend a few trying to take back/defend other cities.

That stack From Saladin, was a shock, and seems Wang Kon, still has some fight left in him as well.

Trouble is, we're between Sitting Bull and Saladin, so we'll be targeted first.
 
SB has infantry!? Scary :eek:

We may as well take Bagacum now. Otherwise we’ll have to walk all the way back again. It will let us work those juicy gem tiles as well. My suggested attack path would take Bagacum and have the stack with Monty join with the stack healing in Bibracte to take Vermalion. Then the stack in Bagacum takes Vienn and Lysander joins Monty to head south and take out the rest.


Builds:
Coventry should probably build culture, we will be able to pop the border in one turn. My understanding is that the hammers can go into the Theater thanks to the bug? Thanks for that info Kossin!

I think the lighthouse in Gergoiva is redundant right now, the grass cottages are better to work so maybe go for a forge?

I would spend 400 gold to upgrade the two LBs in Kish to Rifles, a bit costly, but better than letting Sal run rampant IMO.

What is the current tech plan?
A) Right now steam power will really only help out Ulundi’s production (though it will help quite a bit if we have a source of coal). Useful in the short term for Saladin :hammer: but unhelpful long term if we go for the diplo victory. I suppose the other advantage is using it to trade for something with WK.
B) Is there any point in trying to get Democracy to build the SoL? Or does WK have too much of a head start? We could research Constitution in 6, but then there is Democracy to get...
C) I doubt we will be able to steal Sci Meth, I believe the tech we could steal right now is Theocracy and we can barely steal that.
D) I think we should consider bee-lining Mass Media in the next few techs as I think a Diplo win is our best bet assuming we can keep WK alive.
 
Diplomacy who's going to vote for us???

Sitting Bull is other Candidate, Neither of the other 2 will vote for him (always war)
Saladin will just Abstain (always war x 2)
Wang Kon Votes for us (Assuming still alive)
We vote for us, can we get 75% of vote NO WE CAN'T Mr President.

Diplomatic is O.U.T. Spells no way Jose.

I think Domination??? no possible (have to eat Culturally into Sitting Bull), Conquest Impossible, time, too long.

Ladies and Gentleman, our only option is to go to SPACE!!! The final Frontier. These are the......

Err wrong game.

Space, both in land conquest and victory are our only options.

Question now is, do we keep Wang Kon alive, if he fall's, Saladin, is next.

IF we take out Saladin, we sacrifice Wang Kon to Sitting Bull. We may have to Gift Saladins cities to Wang so he can survive, then they can both Stagnate each other in a perpetual warfare. Of which WE CONTROL the pace.

Long term.

1) Kill Boedicea for ourselves.
2) Kill Saladin, but Gift each city as taken to Wang Kon.
3) Control the pace of the war Between Sitting Bull and Wang Kon, to OUR advantage.
4) Race to Space is ONLY viable victory condition.
 
Interesting points. I think the fundamental difference seems to be an assumption about Saladin. I was assuming that we would take all or most of Sals cities (initially would have lots of WK culture pressure though) and then close borders with SB. I think at that point we would have close to enough population for a diplo, but maybe you are right about being unable to reach the voting cap.

Which leaves us with Space, Domination or Culture (SB will launch before time at the current rate).

Space seems interesting, we'd have to get there before SB which right now looks like a challenge techwise.

You've covered the challenges of getting domination so I'll leave that.

We aren't really set up for Culture right now, but I think we could be by spreading the religions around (for multipliers) and grabbing the multiplier wonders. Then turn off research and 100% culture. However, that is reeaaaally boring as it will turn into a bunch of turns where people just hit enter and maybe send spies to SB to slow down his spaceship :hammer2:.

So to summarise my take on the options, I still think that diplo might be viable but we'll have to found some more cities and plant lots of farms. Space seems more chancy as we'll be in catchup mode. Since this is an SG, I'm actually inclined to change my mind for space, because that will involve people taking relatively important sets up to the end.
 
Ok, seems The Simple Mind is away, no sign of him since Feb. 10th -> skip.

Stochastic, can you pick it up?
This would make Meerk be on deck.


Gergo has only 2 grassland cottages left to work after that it'll be coast or specialists.

Diplomacy is quite feasible here, but it'll be tricky.
Basically we need WK to build UN and SB to vote for us. After we take out Saladin, we'll be #1 in pop making us the second candidate.
To achieve this: tech straight to Mass Media, and gift the techs up to WK. This will work better if Saladin is still alive, as he's SB's worst enemy, not WK.
2. Get SB up to +8 diplo. That means:

Fair trade is at +2 -> +4
WE trade penalty -2 -> 0
Open borders 0 -> 1
Judaism 0 -> 3
Environmentalism 0 -> 3
Gifting cities 0 -> ?
Events 0 -> ?

As you can see, there are plenty of options to get enough diplo with SB for it to work. He's currently at +5 so it shouldn't be that hard, right?

Conquest is impossible. Domination is about as hard... it'd require SB to take WK cities, have them retaken by SB and then retaken by us. Too long too many ifs.

Culture'd be boring as pointed out.

Space is the most secure option. When we get Vienna under our hands, spy missions will be pretty cheap with the help of the holy city.

I'd say let's try as hard as possible for Diplo as it's fastest but let's keep a lookout for space.
 
Ok, seems The Simple Mind is away, no sign of him since Feb. 10th -> skip.

Stochastic, can you pick it up?
This would make Meerk be on deck.
Sounds good to me. I stand ready.
I'd say let's try as hard as possible for Diplo as it's fastest but let's keep a lookout for space.

I agree. Diplo seems interesting also. (Oddly, I have never won a diplo victory.)
 
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