nick0515
C7 Fanatic
Ha ha I was right that you would enjoy testing this, Tom! 
Land Artillery - New AI-Routine
- Thread starter Civinator
- Start date
In my mod I gave all the offense and defence units collateral damage abilities based on Civinator idea in CCM Mod which works v nice and I added animations to the units ( Attack 1 - Artillery attack . Attack 2 - infantry . Attack 3 - infantry) but I also tried adding a new element by a battle producing one shot unit with cruise missile flag in it and not Artillery flag unit I gave it for ancient , medieval , Industrial Age a 1 range bombard value with there usual bombard strength and rate for fire as starting from the arrival of infantry units I gave the battle auto created units a 2 bombard range cruise missile units with also there normal bombardment bombardment strength and ROF , the result was brilliant , the AI will use them effectively and bombard with them v nicely
, it seems the AI knows v well what to do once he has a cruise missile unit not like the broken Artillery flag
Here's what happened in my tests :
I attacked his units with my stack of tank units his stack of infantry and tank units and Battle AUTO generated units were created on both sides before starting my infantry units attack I have used those Auto generated units and bombarded his stack then I launched with my infantry an attack but i couldn't finish him off he still had many units when the AI turn came he bombarded me with his Auto Generated bombarding units then started his attack with tanks and infantry and continued doing this till he made it to the gates of my city
AI will use always the cruise missile flag unit v effectively the moment he has them not like Artillery flagged units
In certain situations during the battles I noticed the AI once he was done with my units will keep those cruise missile units by themselves next to there stack of units once I approach him with a new stack of units and enter his bombarding range he will fire them on the spot before attacking with his other non bombarding units
In other situations he will guard them with an infantry unit but again once I enter the bombarding range he will use them at once then move with his units
The only catch that it has to be a battle Auto generated unit and not buildable or improvement Auto generated unit
The conclusion the AI WILL use any Auto battle generated unit with cruise missile flag unit checked v effectively and will bombard with them offensively and defensively and against all units ( land , sea ) and against cities too
U will have to create of course new units folders if u want to put this to use and assign certain units the enslave ability flag .
for me I used the bombs. Flc in Civ 3 animations folder
I hope this information does help cos finally AI is using the land bombardement properly with a range bombardement of 1 and 2 for the modern times
and tif u want to compensate for the unit being a cruise missile unit flagged U can always make the bombardment strength stronger and the rate of fire.
Here's what I did in my mod :
Swordsmen and horsemen units have the ability to enslave the let's say as an example seige catapult will be the result of enslavement which is a cruise missile flag unit
Medieval infantry and knights have he ability to enslave and result in seige trebuchet
Musketman and cuirassier also will enslave and result in seige bombard
Rifleman and cavalry will enslave and result in seige cannon
Infantry and tanks will enslave and result in mobile Artillery
Modern armour and mech infantry will enslave and result in mobile radar Artillery.
The more units in the game u give this enslave ability result too the more Auto battle generated units
U will have .
I still kept for the regular units the collateral damage flag and as for the Artillery units i gave them a defence and bombarding and immobile role in the cities were they add to the city défenses since the AI uses them at least in bombarding sea units and land units
I thought I would share my tests in case it can help anyone in there mods looking for a better AI usage of land bombardement in an effective manner .
, it seems the AI knows v well what to do once he has a cruise missile unit not like the broken Artillery flag
Here's what happened in my tests :
I attacked his units with my stack of tank units his stack of infantry and tank units and Battle AUTO generated units were created on both sides before starting my infantry units attack I have used those Auto generated units and bombarded his stack then I launched with my infantry an attack but i couldn't finish him off he still had many units when the AI turn came he bombarded me with his Auto Generated bombarding units then started his attack with tanks and infantry and continued doing this till he made it to the gates of my city
AI will use always the cruise missile flag unit v effectively the moment he has them not like Artillery flagged units
In certain situations during the battles I noticed the AI once he was done with my units will keep those cruise missile units by themselves next to there stack of units once I approach him with a new stack of units and enter his bombarding range he will fire them on the spot before attacking with his other non bombarding units
In other situations he will guard them with an infantry unit but again once I enter the bombarding range he will use them at once then move with his units
The only catch that it has to be a battle Auto generated unit and not buildable or improvement Auto generated unit
The conclusion the AI WILL use any Auto battle generated unit with cruise missile flag unit checked v effectively and will bombard with them offensively and defensively and against all units ( land , sea ) and against cities too
U will have to create of course new units folders if u want to put this to use and assign certain units the enslave ability flag .
for me I used the bombs. Flc in Civ 3 animations folder
I hope this information does help cos finally AI is using the land bombardement properly with a range bombardement of 1 and 2 for the modern times
and tif u want to compensate for the unit being a cruise missile unit flagged U can always make the bombardment strength stronger and the rate of fire.
Here's what I did in my mod :
Swordsmen and horsemen units have the ability to enslave the let's say as an example seige catapult will be the result of enslavement which is a cruise missile flag unit
Medieval infantry and knights have he ability to enslave and result in seige trebuchet
Musketman and cuirassier also will enslave and result in seige bombard
Rifleman and cavalry will enslave and result in seige cannon
Infantry and tanks will enslave and result in mobile Artillery
Modern armour and mech infantry will enslave and result in mobile radar Artillery.
The more units in the game u give this enslave ability result too the more Auto battle generated units
U will have .
I still kept for the regular units the collateral damage flag and as for the Artillery units i gave them a defence and bombarding and immobile role in the cities were they add to the city défenses since the AI uses them at least in bombarding sea units and land units
I thought I would share my tests in case it can help anyone in there mods looking for a better AI usage of land bombardement in an effective manner .
Last edited:
Jorsalfare
Prince
Interesting and creative twist to utilise enslavement. Thank you for sharing!
nick0515
C7 Fanatic
That's a very interesting idea, fuad. Thanks for sharing. So I take it the enslave created units have a movement. Does the AI move them around? Will it move them up to a city and use them to bombard it? It's been a long while since I actually played/modded so trying to remember how you move normal cruise missiles around. Can they move or just rebase/air lift?
AnthonyBoscia
Emperor
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2010
- Messages
- 1,847
So now I gotta wonder how the AI would use an artillery unit force-flagged in the custom editor with the cruise missile strategy.
nick0515
The cruise missile has a normal move points and air lift but cos of the auto generated battle unit I'm not sure if they used the previous generated units or new ones cos when they approached my city they fought first with there units and then bombarded my city then renew there attacks on my city and took it , I do use only the C3C editor and I did give the Auto battle generated units the build Radar Tower ability so maybe they were building some radar towers also I have to try to give them and see what the results will be an ignore movement cost or treat terrain like roads and see if they will move them along or not .
I remember once I did make them invisible and they moved them around so maybe giving them the treat terrain like roads or ignore move cost will do the trick
AnthonyBoscia
I did try to make the Artillery and cruise missile tags but the C3C editor won't allow it unfortunately
In the next few days I will conclude a more detailed tests with removing the build radar tower and adding the ignore movement cost to the Auto battle generated cruise missile flagged units and see what happens
The cruise missile has a normal move points and air lift but cos of the auto generated battle unit I'm not sure if they used the previous generated units or new ones cos when they approached my city they fought first with there units and then bombarded my city then renew there attacks on my city and took it , I do use only the C3C editor and I did give the Auto battle generated units the build Radar Tower ability so maybe they were building some radar towers also I have to try to give them and see what the results will be an ignore movement cost or treat terrain like roads and see if they will move them along or not .
I remember once I did make them invisible and they moved them around so maybe giving them the treat terrain like roads or ignore move cost will do the trick
AnthonyBoscia
I did try to make the Artillery and cruise missile tags but the C3C editor won't allow it unfortunately
In the next few days I will conclude a more detailed tests with removing the build radar tower and adding the ignore movement cost to the Auto battle generated cruise missile flagged units and see what happens
Kirejara
King
I had discovered similar behavior of captured artillery.
My artillery units have normal attributes except that they have now defence points.
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/smart-ai-artillery-usage-suggestion.543861/#post-14307604
Since the KI is losing more artillery units compared to their original defensive use, there is no problem with too many of them binding their normal land units as escorts.
In my last game (due to illness some months ago) it seemed to me that once the KI use their captured artillery in an offensive, that they do so also with their own, native artillery.
My artillery units have normal attributes except that they have now defence points.
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/smart-ai-artillery-usage-suggestion.543861/#post-14307604
Since the KI is losing more artillery units compared to their original defensive use, there is no problem with too many of them binding their normal land units as escorts.
In my last game (due to illness some months ago) it seemed to me that once the KI use their captured artillery in an offensive, that they do so also with their own, native artillery.
AnthonyBoscia
Emperor
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2010
- Messages
- 1,847
The C3C editor won't but it can be done with Quintillus' or Steph's editors. I'll check it out when I get a chance.
tom2050
Deity
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2005
- Messages
- 5,516
Yes, enslavement of cruise missiles works very well. CoMM3 uses this method a lot (although generally for spells), and the AI actively uses the heck out of them. I believe the AI will move those cruise missiles around, but sometimes they may just fortify them where they are at if they cease to be at war, or if nothing is in range. If they return to war, they will use them again.
I'm pretty sure if you give something both artillery and cruise missile flag, the AI will assign that unit to one or the other, it won't be able to use both AI traits simultaneously.
I'm pretty sure if you give something both artillery and cruise missile flag, the AI will assign that unit to one or the other, it won't be able to use both AI traits simultaneously.
timerover51
Deity
I will need to do some thinking about this, but it does open up a lot of possibilities. Now, if someone would just figure out a way to beat the 32-resources bug.
Kirejara
King
I have been finally been able to continue my last game started in April or so.
And I have a beautyful evidence that captured artillery is used by the KI in the offense.
Royal Horseguard and Pioneers have the ability to "salvage" enemy artillery pieces.
And no, none of the guns is of japanese origin. They have been "sponsored" by my allies against the Zulu.
And I have a beautyful evidence that captured artillery is used by the KI in the offense.
Royal Horseguard and Pioneers have the ability to "salvage" enemy artillery pieces.
And no, none of the guns is of japanese origin. They have been "sponsored" by my allies against the Zulu.
tom2050
Deity
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From what you mentioned also, sounds really enticing! I went ahead and tested 'enslaved' artillery (with a small defensive value), and the AI uses that as well. It doesn't appear to always use it, but uses most of them in various ways. Because many of these pieces are enslaved right in the midst of battle on the front lines, it does various things with them.
- Sometimes it seems to try to get them to safety since there is not a 'defender' with them.
- Not sure if it's a debug mode thing, but I usually only see 1 actively bombard from a city (even if there is several there). Not sure if the others are really bombarding, or if the AI fortified them, or if debug mode just doesn't show it (which is very possible).
- if AI captured artillery work (as Kirejara mentioned), then perhaps some combination of enslaved / captured artillery is the best way to at least making some artillery action happen in games.
- If AI artillery has a defensive value, it sometimes doesn't seem to care about needing a defender, it will go off and bombard on it's own. I also saw this happen in EFZI.
- Sometimes enslaved artillery seemed to still move into cities. Will have to keep playing more turns to see if they move these active artillery pieces out or not at some future point.
Things to think about. Because human player can sometimes take advantage of AI silliness, being able to capture AI's artillery is sometimes bad, since human can accumulate large amounts of them. But giving them small amount of defense, may result in less active artillery in the game.
- Sometimes it seems to try to get them to safety since there is not a 'defender' with them.
- Not sure if it's a debug mode thing, but I usually only see 1 actively bombard from a city (even if there is several there). Not sure if the others are really bombarding, or if the AI fortified them, or if debug mode just doesn't show it (which is very possible).
- if AI captured artillery work (as Kirejara mentioned), then perhaps some combination of enslaved / captured artillery is the best way to at least making some artillery action happen in games.
- If AI artillery has a defensive value, it sometimes doesn't seem to care about needing a defender, it will go off and bombard on it's own. I also saw this happen in EFZI.
- Sometimes enslaved artillery seemed to still move into cities. Will have to keep playing more turns to see if they move these active artillery pieces out or not at some future point.
Things to think about. Because human player can sometimes take advantage of AI silliness, being able to capture AI's artillery is sometimes bad, since human can accumulate large amounts of them. But giving them small amount of defense, may result in less active artillery in the game.
tom2050
Deity
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2005
- Messages
- 5,516
I think it's safe to say a fabulous way for AI using Artillery is here.
A few things I noticed on Enslaved / Captured AI Artillery (both work really well), and the combination of the 2 should make for a refreshing game.
If AI Artillery that has been enslaved does not have any defence points, it will usually try to get to the closest city. This probably happens, because 1) the unit needs a defender, and 2) the AI will always try to bombard no-defense units first (and will destroy improvements, etc in the process). So this is a good thing.
If the AI on the same turn where an AI Artillery has been enslaved/captured, decides to make that unit a defender of that AI Artillery, it will probably stay in the field and bombard from there.
If the AI Artillery has defense points (as Kirajara's did), it will not necessary rush to a city, but may just hang out and bombard. The AI must know it has defense, so is okay with the unit being out by itself.
Both enslaved, and captured artillery's work pretty darn well. Within 15 turns of testing in the middle of a game, I saw alot happen.
Lot of units were at the front. and each side (purple and blue) had about 15 units that could enslave artillery.
Purple slightly stronger. All the arty they enslaved (6 of them), they moved back to their closest city. I was a bit worried at first. Then I saw them a couple turns later bombard units in the field, and then changed to bombard an enemy ship a couple squares out (seems ships have a high priority to be attacked). Then several turns later, after some reinforcements units arrived, 4 of those artillery joined up with 4 units, and started immediately heading out towards an enemy city. This seems to be what is also happening in Kirejara's screen. Only the stronger side (purple) with more available units did this. The weaker civ (blue) did not, it kept it's units stationary, and bombarded from there.
Blue side enslaved about 5 artillery. They moved 2 artillery to a nearby eastern city. 1 has not done anything, the other moved out of the city to bombard a nearby enemy city. I noticed them bombarding a city one turn, then changing to bombard a unit in the field the next. The others went to another nearby western city, and bombarded units in the field, when they were within range. One stayed on the front.
I suppose what may happen, is during Peacetime or even wartime, built artillery have no target, and may get 'stuck' in some kind of no target mode. If enslaved during war, or captured during war, they seem to be set to their active mode. If war ends, not sure if those artillery still work or not. I remember from early 'barb arty capturing' tests of the first CoMM3, that they were active for a while, but I think if peacetime hits, they may become non-active.
A few things I noticed on Enslaved / Captured AI Artillery (both work really well), and the combination of the 2 should make for a refreshing game.
If AI Artillery that has been enslaved does not have any defence points, it will usually try to get to the closest city. This probably happens, because 1) the unit needs a defender, and 2) the AI will always try to bombard no-defense units first (and will destroy improvements, etc in the process). So this is a good thing.
If the AI on the same turn where an AI Artillery has been enslaved/captured, decides to make that unit a defender of that AI Artillery, it will probably stay in the field and bombard from there.
If the AI Artillery has defense points (as Kirajara's did), it will not necessary rush to a city, but may just hang out and bombard. The AI must know it has defense, so is okay with the unit being out by itself.
Both enslaved, and captured artillery's work pretty darn well. Within 15 turns of testing in the middle of a game, I saw alot happen.
Lot of units were at the front. and each side (purple and blue) had about 15 units that could enslave artillery.
Purple slightly stronger. All the arty they enslaved (6 of them), they moved back to their closest city. I was a bit worried at first. Then I saw them a couple turns later bombard units in the field, and then changed to bombard an enemy ship a couple squares out (seems ships have a high priority to be attacked). Then several turns later, after some reinforcements units arrived, 4 of those artillery joined up with 4 units, and started immediately heading out towards an enemy city. This seems to be what is also happening in Kirejara's screen. Only the stronger side (purple) with more available units did this. The weaker civ (blue) did not, it kept it's units stationary, and bombarded from there.
Blue side enslaved about 5 artillery. They moved 2 artillery to a nearby eastern city. 1 has not done anything, the other moved out of the city to bombard a nearby enemy city. I noticed them bombarding a city one turn, then changing to bombard a unit in the field the next. The others went to another nearby western city, and bombarded units in the field, when they were within range. One stayed on the front.
I suppose what may happen, is during Peacetime or even wartime, built artillery have no target, and may get 'stuck' in some kind of no target mode. If enslaved during war, or captured during war, they seem to be set to their active mode. If war ends, not sure if those artillery still work or not. I remember from early 'barb arty capturing' tests of the first CoMM3, that they were active for a while, but I think if peacetime hits, they may become non-active.
nick0515
C7 Fanatic
Wow that's really great! Sounds like an excellent fix for the broken artillery.
