land theft via citadels not triggering war logical?

[johnny4634]

is it logical that citadel can steal land and not trigger a war at the same time? I always found it weird. could we get config option in advanced new game setup, to disable land theft via citadels/great generals?

 

[Recursive]

It does apply a diplomatic penalty.

Advanced Setup, probably not, that menu is already crowded, but it could perhaps be added as a CustomModOption. Make a feature request on GitHub.

 

[andersw]

Even worse:
AI - "are you about to declare war on me?"
Me - "no"
AI - "fine I plop a citadel on you despite Im at war with 2 other AI and losing.
I wouldnt mind a look at AI citadel placement preference as it seems extremely biased against the human player.

 

[KungCheops]

Even worse:
AI - "are you about to declare war on me?"
Me - "no"
AI - "fine I plop a citadel on you despite Im at war with 2 other AI and losing.
I wouldnt mind a look at AI citadel placement preference as it seems extremely biased against the human player.

It's not, unless the AI is biased to dislike human players more (iirc it probably is).

 

[johnny4634]

that other thing is imho more a strategic nuance, context dependent. a player may lose badly and still not focus on areas they don't care about, but invest significantly into theoretically protecting something they do care about.
but the original issue imho is fundamental. annexing territory of another entity shouldn't be possible in peace. at least it should trigger a conflict

 

[KungCheops]

that other thing is imho more a strategic nuance, context dependent. a player may lose badly and still not focus on areas they don't care about, but invest significantly into theoretically protecting something they do care about.
but the original issue imho is fundamental. annexing territory of another entity shouldn't be possible in peace. at least it should trigger a conflict

Declare war on them then

 

[johnny4634]

Declare war on them then

in most cases that's the way, but it's not always possible, during peace treaty for example.

there are many edge cases to be reworked in the whole concept regarding citadels. that one for example, being able to "safely" steal land during peace treaty. also, can they be and should citadels be "re-occupiable", how can one liberate specifically those stolen tiles, etc.
imho low hanging fruit is simply an option to disable land theft through them. just like how there is 'passive espionage', there could be 'passive citadels'

 

[KungCheops]

Stealing land during peace treaties should probably not be possible, or maybe have a global diplomatic malus like backstabbing does. Adding a mod option for passive citadels is something I could get behind, although doesn't that break one of the existing autocracy tenets? Don't remember if that one was reworked.

 

[Recursive]

Yeah, Lebensraum will be reworked in 5.0.

The ideal solution is for it to count as a casus belli, but we don't have such a system in place yet.

 

[looorg]

The thing that the AI does the most, or so it feels, is that as soon as there is peace they take their generals and plop them down at the border when they can't be stopped cause there is peace. So first peace, then steal some extra land afterwards.

 

[KungCheops]

The thing that the AI does the most, or so it feels, is that as soon as there is peace they take their generals and plop them down at the border when they can't be stopped cause there is peace. So first peace, then steal some extra land afterwards.

They do it during the war if it is safe to do so, but otherwise they do indeed wait until peace to steal all your land.

 

[Recursive]

Can't fault the AI here, they're using their mastery of game rules to their advantage.

 

[looorg]

It's not that. It's a bit odd mostly. First peace and then as soon as there is peace they decide to steal some land, more or less insuring that there will be a new war in X turns. Also isn't there a diplomatic penalty? Not like those matter all that much. In this case you are probably eternally bound to war until one is destroyed. So niceties have already left the party a long time ago. It's more annoying in that you sort of have to try and take out all the excess generals you can find before the war ends or you just know what they'll plop them at the border as soon as there is peace. Still it might be hard to actually do much about it.

 

[Flamingcheesepie]

Just FYI, currently AI cannot build a citadel while at war, because all Generals get assigned to combat. So they war as long as they want, then peace, then reassess whether to citadel.

 

[KungCheops]

Just FYI, currently AI cannot build a citadel while at war, because all Generals get assigned to combat. So they war as long as they want, then peace, then reassess whether to citadel.

This is not true

 

[KungCheops]

The AI will assign a set number of GGs as army generals during wars, but any excess ones will be used to build citadels.

 

[johnny4634]

I think no one can dispute that stealing land during active peace treaty should be either blocked (low hanging fruit), or as Recursive said ideally count as casus belli to the other side and carry *huge* diplomatic hit (but that system is to be designed and implemented yet)..

 

[Panzeri]

To solve this, for now, I'm using this mod (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=671518105 - Citadels don't steal land).
But I don't know if it will continue to work in the next version of vox populi (5.x).
I confess I also find this mechanic a bit annoying. Borders often look weird due to a "citadel war" between AIs.

 

[Flamingcheesepie]

Oh nice, it was fixed? Thanks for the info.

 

[youngsteve]

There should be an instant war if land stolen. Been saying so for years. Mind you, I don't really care as I always have the mod 'Citadels don't steal Land' on, which makes the game much better.