Land Titles and Holdings

[Lord Neil]

I don't suppose one could own multiple tiles?

It was said later in the game people will but not until everyone who wants one has one. and I want one

 

[yakami]

Hail to the enlighted one!


based on this, maybe we could build up a more detailed land system?

Something like this:

If someone own a farmland which produces 5 food+ 1 gold, and there're citizens working on it, then he will receive 10% of the products (0.5food+0.1gold) as the land tax. The tax rate should be controlled by the leader faction.
Every turn everyone's income is culculated and recorded. And then the owner could use some of his property to do something.
For example he could hire one worker to improve one of his land at a price of 2 food per turn.
Or he could suggest a mayor to produce an Axeman as his private army if he has enough hammers...maybe pay some gold to the copper mine owner? And if our country is at war he could send his own army to beat the enemies under full command of our leader.

As long as we have a income system, some more complex economic behaviors could be created by our citizens once a specified tech was reseached. Such as land trading, mercenary army, a banking system (to help improve poor lands and lands that was ruined by war.), or another east india company perhaps?...

what do you think about it?

 

[pat123]

Wow, I love that idea. i had been wondering how the land could be used, outside of just the usual Rp story. That could also tie to the trading guilds being created. Trades of gold or food could be made, instead of just the resource.

 

[Provolution]

I also think we could see the civics like this:

Government Civics, for faction elections
Legal Civics, for how faction city rights are in relation to government power (feudal vs. central power)
Labor Civics, Workers. tile usage and city specialists, rights for those players not part of a prime faction, and the less rights for these, the more profit margin for landowners
Economy Civics, This determines size of markets and value of individual tiles and resources, the bigger population and wealth ratio, the more expensive land, the bigger population and wealth ratio, the bigger consumer base for resources
Religious Civics, This determines the relative influence of religious guilds over landowners, non-landowners, the faction cities and the government itself.

 

[Lord Civius]

yakami

Those are all great ideas but we can't let the system grow too quickly or too complex or it will never work. I have DM'd land owner-ship F-Games/ M-Games before and trust me it is wise to keep it simple. The introduction of the Trading Guilds gives the land system roots for a future RP economy as we gain economy based techs like mathematics, currency banking, etc.

Trades of gold or food could be made, instead of just the resource.

That too is a good idea but very information heavy. We would need a team of moderators to decipher it all as info would change turn by turn abd detailed records would be very cumbersome. I must stress again keep it simple but creative.

I also think we could see the civics like this:

Government Civics, for faction elections
Legal Civics, for how faction city rights are in relation to government power (feudal vs. central power)
Labor Civics, Workers. tile usage and city specialists, rights for those players not part of a prime faction, and the less rights for these, the more profit margin for landowners
Economy Civics, This determines size of markets and value of individual tiles and resources, the bigger population and wealth ratio, the more expensive land, the bigger population and wealth ratio, the bigger consumer base for resources
Religious Civics, This determines the relative influence of religious guilds over landowners, non-landowners, the faction cities and the government itself.

I think you are on to something here Provo.
Gov't Civics-
Legal Civics-
Labor Civics- The landsystem could then have time to grow as we need to learn the techs before we could change the civic. As long as we don't build the Pyramids .
Economy Civic- Or this could dictate a taxing system where civic would determine tax rate trading guilds and eventually all tile owners (as the system progresses) would have to pay the Prime faction. free market- 0%...State Property- 50%.
Religious Civic- Yes the religious guild with the most members persay would almost be like our RP Religion and according to the civic would determine its influence on the land system. Free religion would mean no influence and theocracy would be major influence.

I would also add that the we would need to rethink the "Prime-Faction can scrap the whole system rule". Certain land rights should be established. Not to say that a player can't lose his tile but a mass redistribution or total elimination of the system would be too much.

I don't suppose one could own multiple tiles?

According to Giruvegan Land Law

V. (d)There are no limits to the number of territories a Citizen may own.

V. (g)A citizen can not be given more than (1) territory per week.

 

[Provolution]

I think "State Property", "Police State" and Vassalage can change tile ownerships (also historically they did).

Code of Laws firmly establish property rights.

 

[Ballazic]

Its true, state property should abolish titles, police state and vassalage keeps tiles owners who support the faction and destroys the ones that don't

 

[Vandal Warlord]

Vandal- I was planning on setting up an RP combat, judged by me, in which we use either a RNG, or a number guessing system, to decide the outcome of the battle.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Seidrik_The_Gray]

I would also like to live on the furthest north tile, Shattered. Also, thank you all for this discussion on land use and its potential. I was not sure how it would opperate, and your brainstorming is giving me hope for its future benefit in terms of fun factor and RP basis. However, please, please, please, don't make this complicated. A simple, your plot is here, build a story about it however you see fit. I'm not sure what the taxes or economy would net us. If you're highly creative, I'm sure you could write up a fabulously pimped out stone age manor, etc...Is the economy to be used to add realism?

 

[Seymoo]

I thankyou most humbly for what you seen fit to bestow upon me

 

[pat123]

I think the economy is there to allow those with less creative minds, such as myself, to still have something to talk about. Economics can be fun, if you're the one with the money. People spend their entire careers just winning and losing money. It must be a little fun?

 

[yakami]

and economic could simulate the progress of our society and conflicts between different classes. For example if only a few people have a major part of the lands in our country, and most people dont have any, then in the next election they would call for state property, and land lords would stand against that. Then let's debate!
And maybe if some people are rich enough, they could build their own transport fleet and settlers, and colonize some oversea island just like the history...
With these possibilities, we could be more like "living a real life" in our country, and there would be more materials to RP with.

I agree with Lord Civius that the system should be simple and fun. We dont have to set everything in the beginning, but follow the progress of technologies and society and above all, most players' interest.

 

[w00ter]

And maybe if some people are rich enough, they could build their own transport fleet and settlers, and colonize some oversea island just like the history...

I like that idea althought it would be a pain in the ass for the prime faction leader to do all the things every landowner wants. Maybe if we'd set up a 'to do' list...

 

[joncnunn]

Thanks for land grant.
I propose a road be built thru my tile (if one has not already been built nearby) to help connect resources and future territory to our north east to the capital. Other than that I propose it not be improved until our city is much larger.

 

[ice2k4]

I'm starting to see talk of an economy for the RPG, without comments saying that it would be too complicated and time consuming :O

Just kidding of course.

But anyway in a few of the past demogames we had an economic system with a bank, land ownership, businesses, a stock market etc. All of this looked pretty fun but only really suceeded in one demogame due the dedication of the people running the economic system.

I'd love to bring back this feature to the demogame, and would defintely volunteer to run it, but this is a debate that should go in it's own thread if enough people want to bring it back.

 

[Lord Civius]

I'm starting to see talk of an economy for the RPG, without comments saying that it would be too complicated and time consuming :O

Just kidding of course.

Well me and Prov are sort of at the helm of the economy discussion so far. Looks like there could be good participation with a simple and fun system. Letting the RP run the economy and not let ourselves get bogged down with too much complexity I think is the key. I have instituted the Trading Guilds as a foundation for the RP economy. They sort of work as the "Big Businesses" of the economy. Citizens can join the Guilds and begin in some profit sharing after learning the business (2 weeks). The next step is to introduce Gold to the system. I would like for us to wait til we master the knowledge Currency to come up with a personal one for our Civilization. However allowing the Guilds to start earning a commerce rate of gold per week our currency could then be valued according to a "Gold Standard". Provs' idea is a little different and the goal is to combine our ideas along with input from the citizenry.

But anyway in a few of the past demogames we had an economic system with a bank, land ownership, businesses, a stock market etc. All of this looked pretty fun but only really suceeded in one demogame due the dedication of the people running the economic system.

I'd love to bring back this feature to the demogame, and would defintely volunteer to run it, but this is a debate that should go in it's own thread if enough people want to bring it back.

I have also ran the economies in prior D-games on different sites (still a newbie here ). They both were vastly different as the RP took them seperate ways. The first was more capitalistic while the other was more feudal with landownership and got very deep til by the end the different lords were warring with each other. Come join the economic discussion.

 

[ice2k4]

Well me and Prov are sort of at the helm of the economy discussion so far. Looks like there could be good participation with a simple and fun system. Letting the RP run the economy and not let ourselves get bogged down with too much complexity I think is the key. I have instituted the Trading Guilds as a foundation for the RP economy. They sort of work as the "Big Businesses" of the economy. Citizens can join the Guilds and begin in some profit sharing after learning the business (2 weeks). The next step is to introduce Gold to the system. I would like for us to wait til we master the knowledge Currency to come up with a personal one for our Civilization. However allowing the Guilds to start earning a commerce rate of gold per week our currency could then be valued according to a "Gold Standard". Provs' idea is a little different and the goal is to combine our ideas along with input from the citizenry.



I have also ran the economies in prior D-games on different sites (still a newbie here ). They both were vastly different as the RP took them seperate ways. The first was more capitalistic while the other was more feudal with landownership and got very deep til by the end the different lords were warring with each other. Come join the economic discussion.

I'm not sure why you want to wait until we actually discover currency to implement a gold system. You didn't exactly wait until we discovered the later guilds tech to implement trading guilds.

 

[vra379971]

Lets wait a bit to institute gold please, don't want to make a complex game too complex yet.

And, I want some land!

 

[Lord Civius]

I'm not sure why you want to wait until we actually discover currency to implement a gold system. You didn't exactly wait until we discovered the later guilds tech to implement trading guilds.

The Guilds were here before Genesis so there was not much we could do about that. Ancient civs dealt with gold long before they instituted an actual currency. This game so far (RP wise) is to try and stick to RP principles based on techs and civics metagame. I know that we cannot be 100% on board with this idealsism but the goal is to try and ride the metagame in all ways that we can.

 

[Rex rgis of Ter]

As I've left the faction, my land can go to Neil.