Late game balance

[citis]

It feels to me that late game is unbalanced. These are some reasons:
*Turkey is leading in techs, military and generally everything. It is stable or retakes respawns almost immediately.
*Techwise AIs are getting advanced really quickly. This is visible in army and wonders.

For example machine guns should come around 1870 and infantry in 1930. In-game marines come before 1900.
Wembley stadium is built before 1900, although real Weambley stadium was finished in 2002 and Maracana in 1950.
An other example is Turkey builds all modern wonders, Hollywood, Graceland etc.
And someone will enter modern era before 1920.
I have seen Turkey collapse to core one time, but it had teched to modern era before then.

What do you think? Is it only me? It is unbalanced but let it stay that way? Or just no interest or no time to address it?

I have some proposals in mind:
*Motivate Russia to declare war on Turkey more often. Turks will sned their army in Russia and die out from general winter.
*Motivate Italy to amphibious attacks against Turkey.
*Increase number of cities maintainance for Turkey.
*Motivate Prussia to attack France and Russia more often.

*Move infantry to industrialism (and marine to plastics). Assault rifles were introduced in WWII, at the same time with tanks. OR
*Rifles upgrade to marines, not to infantry. This way existing rifles won't upgrade to infantry.

*Disable trade and research bonuses for early discovered techs.

 

[calad]

One clear problem is overflow of hammers. Production simply grows so large late game you can produce most of buildings and units in 1 turn. I dont think that should be possible.

 

[Leoreth]

Are corporations contributing to this? How much?

 

[citis]

I think production isn't the problem. AI tech rate in general and turkish stability are the problems.

Corporations produce unhapiness and unhealthiness, so I don't think they are the problem either.

But honestly I don't know. Do you believe that AI use the production to produce wealth and research?

 

[2015]

I think the extra hammers lategame is good. Leads to stronger wars and such.

Maybe 3/4 of hammers when a city builds wealth/research/culture applies? Or even 1/2?

And from my games (I only play 3000 BC so obviously my starts are extreme) only really large European civs or the Ottomans jump ahead in techs. Maybe colonies shouldn't be so powerful so a snowball effect doesn't happen.

 

[youtien]

nerf factory then.

 

[calad]

Problem with hammers is snowballing effect. I think forge, factory with electricity, industrialism, standing army/naval dominance/organized religion snowballs hammers close to +200%. And then there is central planning which is OP as hell.

 

[citis]

How does production affects the game?

The problem is tech rate and Turkish stability. Production is needed to see the deadliest wars fought ever.

Maybe reduce the transform factor from 50% that are now to 25% or even 10% in industrial age or later.
Increase number of cities maintainance?

EDIT:
Or production modifiers do not apply when you build research, wealth or culture.

 

[Fresol]

EDIT:
Or production modifiers do not apply when you build research, wealth or culture.

They don't, I believe. But I'm not sure.

 

[Leoreth]

EDIT:
Or production modifiers do not apply when you build research, wealth or culture.

That's a good idea.

 

[calad]

How does production affects the game?

The problem is tech rate and Turkish stability. Production is needed to see the deadliest wars fought ever.

Maybe reduce the transform factor from 50% that are now to 25% or even 10% in industrial age or later.
Increase number of cities maintainance?

EDIT:
Or production modifiers do not apply when you build research, wealth or culture.

Well you just named it.

Also I dont think purpose of this game was to produce one unit every turn. High tech late game unit should requite more hammers.

 

[citis]

Set Turkey's two GP and three GP golden age as set. So they won't experience a golden age (maybe so many cities contribute to a snowball effect).
EDIT:

Or make most area not historical for Turkey. Historical area-settler map should include Minor Asia, Caucasus, Crimaia, Tracia, Sam.

 

[Leoreth]

Are you talking about the 1700 AD scenario? Setting some GP and GA counters there might be a good idea overall.

 

[sebzilla]

IWembley stadium is built before 1900, although real Weambley stadium was finished in 2002 and Maracana in 1950.

Pretty sure the original Wembley was built in 1923. The new one was actually finished in 2007. So no idea where you got 2002 from.

 

[Stoklomolvi]

I've been having issues with the British taking over India, South Africa, Australia, etc, and having very high stability such that they're able to research modern technologies in less than 10 turns and build wonders in less than 5. While overproduction is a problem, I think that can be resolved by simply increasing the costs of wonders (scaling by era or something); the bigger issue for me is that the huge colonial empire is able to contribute large amounts of science and overcompensates for the increased tech cost from the empire itself. Russia, too, had large amounts of science stemming from its Siberian colonies and had an absolutely gargantuan army; they had dozens of cities, several workers for each city, and two cossacks protecting each worker.

I suggest that science (maybe production, too, but not food) is reduced for overseas colonies. Overseas being defined as cities on continents other than the one occupied by the capital, or perhaps as cities outside the core (not historical) area. That way, colonies are lucrative for their monetary output, as they should be, not for their science output, which should be lacking anyway.

 

[Fresol]

I've been having issues with the British taking over India, South Africa, Australia, etc, and having very high stability such that they're able to research modern technologies in less than 10 turns and build wonders in less than 5. While overproduction is a problem, I think that can be resolved by simply increasing the costs of wonders (scaling by era or something); the bigger issue for me is that the huge colonial empire is able to contribute large amounts of science and overcompensates for the increased tech cost from the empire itself. Russia, too, had large amounts of science stemming from its Siberian colonies and had an absolutely gargantuan army; they had dozens of cities, several workers for each city, and two cossacks protecting each worker.

I suggest that science (maybe production, too, but not food) is reduced for overseas colonies. Overseas being defined as cities on continents other than the one occupied by the capital, or perhaps as cities outside the core (not historical) area. That way, colonies are lucrative for their monetary output, as they should be, not for their science output, which should be lacking anyway.

What's your version of the game(1.12 or latest SVN revision) and what are the game settings(which scenario, what difficulty level)?

 

[KeeperOT7Keys]

maybe builded wonders should increase the other wonders production costs, this also prevents the holywood-graceland-wembley combo of electric beeliner civilizations

 

[Shadow Warlord]

I've been having issues with the British taking over India, South Africa, Australia, etc, and having very high stability such that they're able to research modern technologies in less than 10 turns and build wonders in less than 5. While overproduction is a problem, I think that can be resolved by simply increasing the costs of wonders (scaling by era or something); the bigger issue for me is that the huge colonial empire is able to contribute large amounts of science and overcompensates for the increased tech cost from the empire itself. Russia, too, had large amounts of science stemming from its Siberian colonies and had an absolutely gargantuan army; they had dozens of cities, several workers for each city, and two cossacks protecting each worker.

I suggest that science (maybe production, too, but not food) is reduced for overseas colonies. Overseas being defined as cities on continents other than the one occupied by the capital, or perhaps as cities outside the core (not historical) area. That way, colonies are lucrative for their monetary output, as they should be, not for their science output, which should be lacking anyway.

I agree on less science output for colonies. If you play with worldbuilder and place cities everywhere (or just play Britain to late game and settler spam), you'll find that even if your economy goes down the drain and you move the science slider down to 0%, you'll still be generating an enormous amount of science output from cities alone.