Late start scenario development thread
- Thread starter merijn_v1
- Start date
gilgames
Priest-King
Because the 1200sc is a crude idea manifested, thanks to Merijin, but it was not developed yet, so auto-play doesn't work for example. Also it is far from balance, its still raw. We are ready to refine it if you too. 
AbsintheRed
Deity
Because the 1200sc is a crude idea manifested, thanks to Merijin, but it was not developed yet, so auto-play doesn't work for example. Also it is far from balance, its still raw. We are ready to refine it if you too.
Autoplay does work now, I fixed it a couple commits ago.
The crash for musscovy is something different, didn't look into that so far.
AFAIK that's the only civ that crashes though.
SVN 1198 on Windows 10.
I tried a 1200 AD start as Venice, and I have no crusaders near Costantinople. So no 2nd UHV, as my tiny fleet (2 holks!) is in Venice and it would take some 8 turns to transport my 2 swordmen and 2 arbalestriers to Costantinople. Quite late, as I have only 1 turn left.
To achieve the 2nd UHV I think Venice needs a stack of crusaders already placed or a larger fleet and army (with trebuchets); in both cases some more turns.
Let's consider that the Latin Empire lasted till 1261, thus we could choose another year for the UHV.
I tried a 1200 AD start as Venice, and I have no crusaders near Costantinople. So no 2nd UHV, as my tiny fleet (2 holks!) is in Venice and it would take some 8 turns to transport my 2 swordmen and 2 arbalestriers to Costantinople. Quite late, as I have only 1 turn left.
To achieve the 2nd UHV I think Venice needs a stack of crusaders already placed or a larger fleet and army (with trebuchets); in both cases some more turns.
Let's consider that the Latin Empire lasted till 1261, thus we could choose another year for the UHV.
merijn_v1
Black Belt
The Venice UHV is one of the major things I'm not fully decided on. My current idea is to give Venice a few more turns and a starting stack. But I'm also considering giving you the UHV for free.
AbsintheRed
Deity
If we keep the start of the scenario at 1200AD, then add an army for them on some ships.
Most of them could disappear ("go home") after a couple turns, like in all other crusades.
It's important to set the army size right though.
Human Venice should be able to sack the city, human Byzantium should be able to repel the attackers, while AI vs AI could go in both ways.
Also if the human player fails to conquer Constantinople with it (or choose to go for a different target), may even get some penalties for it.
Ie: "Your merchants are upset that their ships were used without getting back any real value"
With a choice to pay them off from your own treasury (you have to pay a huge amount of money), or to ignore them (you get some -stability)
Most of them could disappear ("go home") after a couple turns, like in all other crusades.
It's important to set the army size right though.
Human Venice should be able to sack the city, human Byzantium should be able to repel the attackers, while AI vs AI could go in both ways.
Also if the human player fails to conquer Constantinople with it (or choose to go for a different target), may even get some penalties for it.
Ie: "Your merchants are upset that their ships were used without getting back any real value"
With a choice to pay them off from your own treasury (you have to pay a huge amount of money), or to ignore them (you get some -stability)
gilgames
Priest-King
Sound goo to me...
Conquering Costantinople is fun! Instead of having it for free I'd rather move the scenaio start to 1100 AD.
Panopticon
Utilitarian
Apologies for posting on multiple threads, but I didn't see this one.
Any support for moving the English city from Exeter to Bristol in the 1200 scenario? It would better reflect urban settlement in SW England and make the naval game a bit more challenging.
Any support for moving the English city from Exeter to Bristol in the 1200 scenario? It would better reflect urban settlement in SW England and make the naval game a bit more challenging.
AbsintheRed
Deity
I also noticed a mistake in the current setup:
I saw that Pressburg Castle is set for Prague, which is absolutely wrong.
I guess you added it there because of the czech-slovakian relations in the 20th century, but Pozsony had nothing to do even with slovakians up to 1920.
The majority of people in Pozsony/Pressburg (and now Bratislava) and in the region were always hungarians and/or germans by far (varied from time to time, mostly austrians though with the very close borders)
Even adding it to Wien would be much better than adding it to Prague, but of course it should be in a hungarian city close to the Austrian border ideally.
I saw that Pressburg Castle is set for Prague, which is absolutely wrong.
I guess you added it there because of the czech-slovakian relations in the 20th century, but Pozsony had nothing to do even with slovakians up to 1920.
The majority of people in Pozsony/Pressburg (and now Bratislava) and in the region were always hungarians and/or germans by far (varied from time to time, mostly austrians though with the very close borders)
Even adding it to Wien would be much better than adding it to Prague, but of course it should be in a hungarian city close to the Austrian border ideally.
merijn_v1
Black Belt
I don't mind it. I will change it.
I'm aware it should be in Bratislava, but as that city isn't on the map, Prague seemed the best alternative for me. I think I got confused with something because I thought Prague and Bratislava are very close to each other, but I'm not sure anymore why I chose Prague.
Austria hasn't spawned yet in 1200 AD, so Wien isn't on the map. Trencsen seems a good alternative; Hungarian and very close to Bratislava on the map. (Only about 1-2 tiles away)
AbsintheRed
Deity
Yeah, now it's sure. I even get annoyed when I see the city called Bratislava in a historical context
Today it's Bratislava, sure. But at least when talking about medieval times we should be allowed to be proud that it is ours - Pozsony was one of the most important cities in the Kingdom of Hungary for 1000 years after all.
Btw, even the slovakian name should be Presporok (Bratislava is a naming mistake), but that's a different story
Back to the map:
You can add Wien if you want to as an indy city. Won't mess up the Austrian spawn.
The castle sounds good in Trencsén too, it also had an important medieval castle.
gilgames
Priest-King
While I played recent game with Portugal i noticed some strange behavior of respawned civs, note, i never was at war with them before!
Look the headlines on each pic.
Look the headlines on each pic.
AbsintheRed
Deity
You only experienced this in the 1200ad scenario?
Only the war declaration text came up, or your civ actually declared war on them?
Only the war declaration text came up, or your civ actually declared war on them?
gilgames
Priest-King
This far only in 1200. and we become actually warstate, once my explorer was around and it was war indeed.
AbsintheRed
Deity
I suspect this can also appear in the 500AD scenario though, but it has much bigger chance here for some reason.
A savegame before the bug appears would be very nice.
In the current SVN, Portugal starts with Harbours preplaced in Lisboa and Porto, but can still build Feitorias, thus making each sea tile produce 3
.
Also I don't think Spain should start with Armoured Lancers outside Qurtubah when Morocco only has crossbows - Cordoba was held until 1236AD and needs to be kept until 1227 for the UHV, so maybe give it some walls and defenders so it has a chance to survive until then.
Obviously the scenario is still in early development, but thought it best to bring this up
.Also I don't think Spain should start with Armoured Lancers outside Qurtubah when Morocco only has crossbows - Cordoba was held until 1236AD and needs to be kept until 1227 for the UHV, so maybe give it some walls and defenders so it has a chance to survive until then.
Obviously the scenario is still in early development, but thought it best to bring this up
gilgames
Priest-King
@Swarbs
Thats the only point in the scenario that is fine and balanced. Player can keep the cities and build a Settler for morocco, tested it works. Aslo player spain/portugl/argon can take cities in the peninsula. Also tested. So its fine. AI spain behavior is stupid btw.
Thats the only point in the scenario that is fine and balanced. Player can keep the cities and build a Settler for morocco, tested it works. Aslo player spain/portugl/argon can take cities in the peninsula. Also tested. So its fine. AI spain behavior is stupid btw.
Osakasayama
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2010
- Messages
- 67
Some thoughts on an Austria game:
- No more Uber-Deutschland crushing Austria with crazy Knight-Bombard stacks! (I was also able to cap Augsburg and Frankfurt with initial stack in a preventive war)
- Spain, England & France generally in check. Ottomans are much stronger, as they should be.
- Lithuania and Morocco were strong, Moscow rather weak.
- Tech speed was very slow. i.g. Dutch founded Protestantism on their spawn, Reformation never happened.
edit:
Also, Hungary founded the Hanseatic League in Buda by the lake
- No more Uber-Deutschland crushing Austria with crazy Knight-Bombard stacks! (I was also able to cap Augsburg and Frankfurt with initial stack in a preventive war)
- Spain, England & France generally in check. Ottomans are much stronger, as they should be.
- Lithuania and Morocco were strong, Moscow rather weak.
- Tech speed was very slow. i.g. Dutch founded Protestantism on their spawn, Reformation never happened.
edit:
Also, Hungary founded the Hanseatic League in Buda by the lake
merijn_v1
Black Belt
Some thoughts on an Austria game:
- No more Uber-Deutschland crushing Austria with crazy Knight-Bombard stacks! (I was also able to cap Augsburg and Frankfurt with initial stack in a preventive war)
- Spain, England & France generally in check. Ottomans are much stronger, as they should be.
- Lithuania and Morocco were strong, Moscow rather weak.
- Tech speed was very slow. i.g. Dutch founded Protestantism on their spawn, Reformation never happened.
edit:
Also, Hungary founded the Hanseatic League in Buda by the lake
Thanks for the info.
Currently, all existing civ start with a small stack of units. The stack Germany has is much smaller that it would have if you played the 500 AD scenario. (The same is true for all civs) I'm glad that Austria is better playable this way.
I'm planning to give France a small additional stack so it can try to take the English cities in France. Spain already has a small stack for Morocco.
I didn't change anything to the spawning civs, like Lithuania and Moscow. I think that neighbouring civs situation has an effect on them. I think those civs should be changed, rather than Lithuania and Moscow. Except if they are also strong/weak in the 500 AD scenario. In that case, their starting situation (spawning stack) should be changed.
I didn't touch the techs yet. All civs start with the Aragon spawning techs. But if the tech speed is too low, something should be done about that.
The Hanseatic league spawning on small lakes is (unfortunately) quite common. But with the SoI company system soon ready, that should be history. Now you mention it, I will commit a temporary fix, so the coastal city needs to be next to a water area of at least 10 tiles.
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