Leaders that you would not want to have in civ 7 (until you think about it and they are strangely appealing)

The one that came to mind right away was one who has been a leader in Civ before, specifically Civ I and Civ IV - Stalin. You can debate if he was better or worse than Pol Pot (who would also be a really bad choice), but circa 1990 he still had the sheen of defeating the clear worst leader of the 20th century. And in Civ IV Firaxis went all in on the WWII Allies theme - DeGaulle, Churchill, and FDR were all also leaders (though not Kai-Shek IIRC). But I haven't missed him since, especially as I've learned more of his style of rule.

With the potential leader pool expanded, I'd suggest various great writers, such as Tolstoy, as good replacements.

Similarly, not a big fan of Mao. The Cultural Revolution (with its associated famine) and support of the Khmer Rouge and Pol Pot being major downsides. Mao was in at least I, III, and IV, but not VI, and with a broader pool of potential leaders in VII, I see no reason for his return.
 
Olleus said:
Agamemnon is no worse than having, eg, Dido for Carthage. The issue is that there are so many better choices for ancient Greece. Give me Demosthenes, and make it a diplomatic civ centred on slagging everyone else off :D Or go the Magna Graecia route and have Dionysius of Syracuse. And that's skipping over the obvious like Pericles, Alexander the Great (assuming no Macedon), Leonidas, etc...
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I did specify Mykenai, I believe. Last I checked, Demosthenes was Athenian. :p
 
Elon Musk. :D

Seriously for America there are many larger than life figures to choose from. You could even do Oppenheimer. Though we already have one scientist, so maybe we don't want another scientist. But I'd rather have Oppenheimer than Franklin.
 
Disgustipated said:
Seriously for America there are many larger than life figures to choose from. You could even do Oppenheimer. Though we already have one scientist, so maybe we don't want another scientist. But I'd rather have Oppenheimer than Franklin.
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Missed opportunity for Werner Von Braun. "Vonce ze rockets ahr up, who cares vehr zey come down? Zat's not my depahtment," says Werner Von Braun. :D Oh, oh, bonus points: "In English unt in Cherman I know how to count down. And I'm learning Chinese," says Werner Von Braun. :D
 
He's foreign born, if not I would have included someone like Einstein. Imagine him as a leader.
 
Bonyduck Campersang said:
In Civ7, a lot of leaders will be completely foreign to the civ they're leading anyway
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I forgot about that. It's still hard to wrap my head around the fact that leaders and civs are separate. I guess I'll get used to it. So yeah, you'd be choosing the leader in the antiquity age anyways. Yeah, I want an Einstein leader. If I were a modder, he'd be the first one I put in.
 
I really don't like the fact that they have decoupled leaders from Civs. Then they doubled down and made non leaders leaders. Yes, I know some more obscure Civs don't have natural leaders so that might help them.

Anyway, if it is going to be silly then Elvis. 🙃
 
Someone mentioned Rasputin in another thread, and really, that kind of unsettling, manipulative, mystical scene-chewing would make for a delightful villain character. The idea grew on me.
 
Eagle Pursuit said:
Someone mentioned Rasputin in another thread, and really, that kind of unsettling, manipulative, mystical scene-chewing would make for a delightful villain character. The idea grew on me.
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In the dark of the night I was tossing and turning,
And the dreams that I had were as bad as can be:
They scared me out of my wits,
A corpse falling to bits!
Then I opened my eyes and the nightmare was ME!
:D
 
Radical thought: Civ remains constant but Leaders change as you advance through the ages. Just something to ponder about before I recommend Ho Chi Minh. Wouldn’t mind seeing President Monroe for Monroe Doctrine, Andrew Jackson($20 bill + Exploration that occurred under his tenure) and more modern Presidents like Eisenhower or JFK. They just get overshadowed by the age old options.
 
Eagle Pursuit said:
Someone mentioned Rasputin in another thread, and really, that kind of unsettling, manipulative, mystical scene-chewing would make for a delightful villain character. The idea grew on me.
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I’m not thrilled on the idea of getting “bad guys” in as representatives of civs in the base game, but I would happily buy a Naughty Boys pack of like, Vlad, Rasputin, and Henry VIII.
 
moysturfurmer said:
I’m not thrilled on the idea of getting “bad guys” in as representatives of civs in the base game
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I mean, Alexander, Genghis Khan, and Montezuma have almost always been base game staples. Civ6's CdM was very consciously designed to give scheming villain vibes, down to calling her ability "Black Queen." Qin Shi Huang had all of his concubines buried alive. Oh, and Dom Satan was in the base game. :p
 
Zaarin said:
I mean, Alexander, Genghis Khan, and Montezuma have almost always been base game staples. Civ6's CdM was very consciously designed to give scheming villain vibes, down to calling her ability "Black Queen." Qin Shi Huang had all of his concubines buried alive. Oh, and Dom Satan was in the base game. :p
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Oh for sure, but I would presume Alex and Genghis are held in high regard in Greece and Mongolian respectively (this is just assumption on my part, I admit) and I again assume that Mexico doesn’t esteem the Aztecs as vital to their national Identity as much as the anti-colonialists and revolutionaries of the last couple of centuries. I get your meaning though.
 
Zaarin said:
I mean, Alexander, Genghis Khan, and Montezuma have almost always been base game staples. Civ6's CdM was very consciously designed to give scheming villain vibes, down to calling her ability "Black Queen." Qin Shi Huang had all of his concubines buried alive. Oh, and Dom Satan was in the base game. :p
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Given the wider range now explicitly referenced for sources of Leaders, I suggest that for scheming, it would be hard to beat:
Richelieu
Tallyrand
Metternich
Let's face it, the men who put "scheming" into All Caps..

Demosthenes actually falls into that pattern as well: he would argue any side of any case, based on who paid him. His infamous Phillippics against Phillip of Macedon were entirely bought and paid for by Persian Archers (the Persian gold coin, which showed an archer on the back).
 
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