Legal Discussion on New Naming Law

Provolution

Sage of Quatronia
Joined
Jul 21, 2004
Messages
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Location
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Legal Discussion on New Naming Law (CODE OF LAWS)

This is a legal discussion on the Naming Law, and will last 48 hours, then a mock poll will be presented.

EXISTING LAW

Citizens Rights

1. Naming Rights
a. City Names
All cities founded by Fanatannia will be named by citizens
using a rank-based system. The President will maintain
this list in a thread. Should a citizen fail to provide a
city name, they will be skipped until they provide a city
name. The Director of Expansion will include the city name
to be used in the instructions to found that city. No
citizen may name more than one city until all citizens
have named a city.
1. Ranking Order - elected officials
The rank order is based on the term and the Chain of
Command. All officials of an earlier term have priority
over officials of a later term. Within a term, the
Chain of Command will determine who has priority.
2. Ranking Order - citizens
Once all elected officials have named cities, the
Citizen Regsitry will be used to name cities, using the
order citizens were registered.

PROPOSED LAW
1. Naming Rights
a. City Names
All cities founded by Fanatannia will be named by citizens
using a fair electorate system. The President will maintain
this list in a thread. Should a citizen fail to provide a
city name, they will be skipped until they provide a city
name, added after the last name of the existing list. The city name to
be used for the next city will be posted by the Prime Minister [right
now Director of Expansion].

Electorate Order - citizens registry city naming list
The Citizen Regsitry will be used to nominate new cities in
segments of five, using the order citizens were registered, and only
including nominated city names before this list was produced.
Future registrations to this list must happen separately.
These segments of five will be polled by the [INSERT: Director of
Expansion or Grand Marshal] upon establishing new cities, at the
same time city locations are polled.

The Ranking Order system will not be reformed retrospectively and
the city naming list from city 1-13 will therefore be maintained in its
fullness. However, cities 14-27 will be given a fair and equal chance to
be named indiscriminately by a public, neutral 48 hour poll.

FAIR ELECTORATE CITY NAMING LIST

CITY 14__________________

Striders Haven
DNA
Husborne Crawley
Blather
Nijmegen

CITY 15___________________
Kingdom Hearts
Tracheon
Blacktopia
Mr. Roboto
Pantsburg

CITY 16__________________
No_where
Lem
Naples
Classicity
Halls of Mandos

CITY 17__________________
Dun Eideann
Tuttut
Bellopolis
Liveratica
PDX

CITY 18__________________
Bloomington
Paradiss
Mauser
Cengiz
Baconopolis

CITY 19___________________

cheeseville
Los Lobbos
Arglebargle
Gingerbread City
Riva


CITY 20___________________

Punjab
Caladaan
Gilgame's Landing
Refreshing Beverage
Merigovenia

CITY 21___________________

Half Sack
Najora
Arphaville
Magnopolii
Peckopolis

CITY 22__________________

Rata Tomik
Baldur's Gate
Civanatoria
Goldfinger
Quetzal

CITY 23_________________

Son Imparatorluk
Barchester
Gulliverville
Allegory
Sahamrran

CITY 24_________________

Triventon
Sarajevo
Weaponia
Kansas City
Tauranga

CITY 25___________________

Coventry
Sector 7G
Rahovec
robville
Lhyme

CITY 26__________________

Osgiliath
Solema
Black Hole
Alarcos
Routchester

CITY 27____________________

Scorpiopolis
Saint Gaetan
Skye
Copenhagen
New Bajor /Citizen 99
_____________________
 
The present naming law will never give the people a chance to get a nominated city name. Everyone knows that following the chain of command for rank naming gives 13 new
names added to the list per term. We should rather poll 5 at a time at the same time we poll city locations, which is fair and democratic. The list is already made and can be adopted any second by the office polling city locations, to run a parallel naming poll.

This is the most fair way to do it.
 
This is the game itself, and I have already done my share on the culture side.
Reform is wanted and sought for.
 
I personaly dont like having cities being named by a vote :-/. Unless there is something that I may have skimmed passed.
 
This allows every citizen in the registry a fair chance to get a city named.
 
Still dont like the idea since the city in question would be passedover in favor of another city name and the citizen will not have his/her city named.

I personaly perfer to keep the current naming process that we have now, I see it as more fair and less bias. What I mean by "less bias" is that the city name is not subjected of being English or not (Much like the bias against the non-Japanese city names in the last demogame)
 
Principle :

Everyone hot a shot, everyone got a vote. Nothing can be more fair.
 
Still not convinced on how it would be fair. To me, it would not be a fair system. For instance, a city that is hard to spell (Remember from DG2 any of you vets ;) ) would not be able to be named, let alone be in the game. I dont see anything wrong with the current naming system and it has worked fine with no fillibusters and no qualms. Since the current naming system has worked fine in these past demogames, there is no need to fix them. "If it aint broke, dont fix it. If you attempt to fix it, you will break it" - Annonomyous Woodshop Teacher.
 
This ain't broken don't fix it I have heard to many times, and I believe that was a Soviet proverb too. It can be much much more fair.

Let us see, what if someone joins the game as citizen 132, they contribute a lot to the game, and never get elected. They will never

This will stimulate more participation from the lurkers, as well as those who are active.
No one wants to campaign for an absent player with only one post and so on.

Besides CG, this is only counting after city 14, so Term One CoC is intact.

CG do you care about late sign-ups that do not run for elections at all ?
 
Provo,

Your proposed law says
Electorate Order - citizens registry city naming list
Once all elected officials have named cities, the
Citizen Regsitry will be used to nominate new cities in segments of
five, using the order citizens were registered, and only including
nominated city names before this list was produced. Future
registrations to this list must happen separately.
You make the comment
Provolution said:
The present naming law will never give the people a chance to get a nominated city name. Everyone knows that following the chain of command for rank naming gives 13 new names added to the list per term.
How does your proposed law give citizens any naming rights if the first 13 spots are for officials and the officials change every month?
 
:crazyeye: So then the first cousins brother of the uncles half-brother of the comander of the armed forces chooses the city name assuming the presidents mailman's dog has chosen and wasn't born on the third Saturday of the month. Then, we pick viking runes out of a bag assuming that they will spell the name of the next person to choose the name. :crazyeye:

Why dont we do what we did last year, and simply go in order of citizen registry?
 
snipelfritz said:
Why dont we do what we did last year, and simply go in order of citizen registry?

Because the wheel needs to be reinvented each DG. Honestly, is it really THAT important to set up an elaborate process for a simple task such as city naming?
 
We had a poll, with the options
  • Named by officials in the order determined by the CoC (like DG2)
  • Named in order of citizen registration (like DG4-5)

The people chose to use the CoC. This discussion, and all the ones which came before it, is merely an attempt to overturn a choice the people already made.

I would like to ask all supporters of the current system to keep their comments focused on the relative strengths and weaknesses of the proposed new system. No need to obstruct it with vacuous arguments about "it's not broken don't fix it" because that will just provide fuel for the fire.

The proposed new system, if I understand it correctly, spreads the name usage across the entire registry by picking one name each from the sets of 1-5, 6-10, 11-15, 16-20, etc. This means that the citizen registered in each block of 5 has a 20% chance of getting their city name used.

Now, let us focus closely on the actual effects of this proposal. Essentially, for each group of 5 names there will be a popularity poll. Only the most popular names will be used, and even worse if people do what they usually do when voting in elections, only the names suggested by popular people will be chosen. The other 4 people, once their city name is not chosen, will be passed over while approximately 20 or more cities are named, until their chance to get humiliated in a poll comes up again.

The proponent of this proposal fought against efforts to control the quality of city names in the last demogame. In that game, the naming office volunteer attempted to force everyone to choose Japanese names. This was a very bad idea then, as it did not respect the right of every citizen to choose their own name. Now we have this proposal on the table, which would have the effect of forcing our citizens to register popular names in order to have their name used. It takes away the very freedom we want the citizens to have, to register for any name they want without fear of reprisal.

If we really wanted to randomize city name selection, we should commission someone to randomize the list. It would be very straightforward to write an application which uses a random number generator to select a name from the list. Use a saved seed method which guarantees the selected list is repeatible and a randomization method which does not allow a predictable sequence to be chosen by careful choice of seed (to prevent "stacking" the deck). Post the source code so that all can see it is fair, and we have eliminated any chance of favoritisim in any form.
 
DS, if someone can get a randomizer script like that, we should really do it.
However, I consider not even being considered for a name at all as even more unfair than the naming part.
 
YNCS said:
Provo,

Your proposed law saysYou make the commentHow does your proposed law give citizens any naming rights if the first 13 spots are for officials and the officials change every month?

I mean, I cannot change the present naming list for this Term, that is already done. But following that, we can at least get cities 14 and onwards to be fairly distributed outside the CoC. As you can see, I deleted the rank based system altogether. Otherwise, I can promise you that we will only see the CoC be used, and possibly 2-3 people from the registry list that never got elected.
 
Provolution said:
DS, if someone can get a randomizer script like that, we should really do it.
However, I consider not even being considered for a name at all as even more unfair than the naming part.

If the people are trusting and don't ask for the source, then I can do it in about 20 minutes. If source code is required I would need to ask for permission at work, we have a process for participation in open source projects.
 
DS honestly, a randomized count for cities 14 and onwards is the possibly only fair way to
indiscriminately get an equal chance to citizens. Discriminating on holding offices and who signed very first of the insiders for the regsitry is far more unfair than a popular vote in segments of five. I mean, cities do belong to Fanatannia, not selected favored citizens, or insiders who got first to the registry. I see these emotional arguments as flawed, that this will overturn "peoples" feelings and so on, that is the people that was here during the pre DG period to hammer out their interests. With a new group of players, things have changed.

So I say, a randomizer would do it.
 
DS :D it is a great idea, and very fair, and it will bury the issue forever. We have almost 100 names to pick from.
 
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