Length?
- Thread starter Dereth
- Start date
sumthinelse
civ investigator
You can make techs more expensive in Civilization Advances, raise the min and max research time in General, increase the tech rate in World Size, and lower the AI to AI trade rate in the editor. Making all these changes might make it really slow though. It depends on how drastically you change them.
Zouave
Crusader
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2001
- Messages
- 1,603
This thread brings up a good point. I often felt that way myself.
Everyone gets to steam engines or tanks many centuries too soon at Regent or even Monarch. A too fast tech tree development is probably why Firaxis threw in all that crazy corruption as a late fix, or an attempt at a fix.
Again, here we are having to MOD the game OURSELVES because something isn't right. It should have been done in playtesting before marketing, asuming there was playtesting.
If you recall the scenarios with Civ 2 we were able to conduct entire (shortened) games in a single era with a more limited progression of new advances, be it the WW II, WW I, Alexander, Muslim Expansion ("Cross and Crescent" as I recall), and others.
In WW I we could develop Poison Gas, for instance, but Stealth Bombers were no option; the time frame would have limited that anyway.
So here we have another reason why scenarios we so useful.
Everyone gets to steam engines or tanks many centuries too soon at Regent or even Monarch. A too fast tech tree development is probably why Firaxis threw in all that crazy corruption as a late fix, or an attempt at a fix.
Again, here we are having to MOD the game OURSELVES because something isn't right. It should have been done in playtesting before marketing, asuming there was playtesting.
If you recall the scenarios with Civ 2 we were able to conduct entire (shortened) games in a single era with a more limited progression of new advances, be it the WW II, WW I, Alexander, Muslim Expansion ("Cross and Crescent" as I recall), and others.
In WW I we could develop Poison Gas, for instance, but Stealth Bombers were no option; the time frame would have limited that anyway.
So here we have another reason why scenarios we so useful.
I was noticing this myself a while back.
Spearmen: Last a moderate while
Pikemen: Last a while
Musketmen: Don't last a while
Riflemen: Don't last a while
Mech Infantry: I rarely get to use these
Generally, if someone gets to Musketmen before me I will not attack them. Then, when I've gotten Musketmen, I won't attack because Riflemen are right around the corner. After that, why not wait just a few more turns until Infantry? Infantry last a while, and for me I usually don't bother building Mech Infantry as I'm usually near the end of the game by the time I get them.
Its not quite the same for Offense. Ignoring UU's:
Archers: Why bother unless you don't have Iron, in which case its early enough to start a new game.
Swordsmen: Last a while
Knights: Last a moderate while
Calvary (Zouave spelling): Last a long while
Tanks: Etc...
Its still better than Civ2:
Legions
Chariots
Knights
Crusaders
Those things I can't remember
Cavalry
Tanks
And defense:
Phalanx
Pikemen
Musketmen
Riflemen
Infantry (?)
Alpine Troops
Mech Infantry
Spearmen: Last a moderate while
Pikemen: Last a while
Musketmen: Don't last a while
Riflemen: Don't last a while
Mech Infantry: I rarely get to use these
Generally, if someone gets to Musketmen before me I will not attack them. Then, when I've gotten Musketmen, I won't attack because Riflemen are right around the corner. After that, why not wait just a few more turns until Infantry? Infantry last a while, and for me I usually don't bother building Mech Infantry as I'm usually near the end of the game by the time I get them.
Its not quite the same for Offense. Ignoring UU's:
Archers: Why bother unless you don't have Iron, in which case its early enough to start a new game.
Swordsmen: Last a while
Knights: Last a moderate while
Calvary (Zouave spelling): Last a long while
Tanks: Etc...
Its still better than Civ2:
Legions
Chariots
Knights
Crusaders
Those things I can't remember
Cavalry
Tanks
And defense:
Phalanx
Pikemen
Musketmen
Riflemen
Infantry (?)
Alpine Troops
Mech Infantry
Reboot
Privateer
I always believe that CivIII is decidedly anti-aggressor. Almost everything's tweaked a bit to make the aggressor's life difficult. Offhand:
1. Corruption. Makes building and maintaining faraway cities difficult. Therefore you can' launch effective campaigns by simply relying on border-city production, and your faraway conquered cities are harder to keep due to flipping/can't make their own defenders.
2. Movement in enemy territory. Heavy penalties in movement mean not fast-and-deep penetrating attacks. War groups move at a snail's pace.
3. No healing in enemy territory (before Battlefield Medicine) hampers seiges. (units must move out to of the territory to heal)
4. Defensive units are upgradable from ancient all the way to modern. Nothing like this can be said of offensive units.
5. Defence modifiers work wonders, but there's no attack modifier (attack from high-ground, fast attack from cavalry, etc.)
6. Horse-riders are now wimps. (Turn away when damaged)
7. Rebels in conquered city.
8. (IIRC) Riflemen need no special resources. Their offensive equivalent, the cavalry, does.
9. Chivalry, tech provider of knights, is a dead-end tech. So is horse-riding. Wastes civ turns to research to get them.
Of course, some of these do make the nature of warfare a bit more realistic in the game... but on the other hand one feels that penalties to aggressors are a tad overmuch. (not really HEAVY - since so many of you are able to do conquest victories, just MANY)
1. Corruption. Makes building and maintaining faraway cities difficult. Therefore you can' launch effective campaigns by simply relying on border-city production, and your faraway conquered cities are harder to keep due to flipping/can't make their own defenders.
2. Movement in enemy territory. Heavy penalties in movement mean not fast-and-deep penetrating attacks. War groups move at a snail's pace.
3. No healing in enemy territory (before Battlefield Medicine) hampers seiges. (units must move out to of the territory to heal)
4. Defensive units are upgradable from ancient all the way to modern. Nothing like this can be said of offensive units.
5. Defence modifiers work wonders, but there's no attack modifier (attack from high-ground, fast attack from cavalry, etc.)
6. Horse-riders are now wimps. (Turn away when damaged)
7. Rebels in conquered city.
8. (IIRC) Riflemen need no special resources. Their offensive equivalent, the cavalry, does.
9. Chivalry, tech provider of knights, is a dead-end tech. So is horse-riding. Wastes civ turns to research to get them.
Of course, some of these do make the nature of warfare a bit more realistic in the game... but on the other hand one feels that penalties to aggressors are a tad overmuch. (not really HEAVY - since so many of you are able to do conquest victories, just MANY)
Reboot: All good points! I differ with you on the conclusion, though. I like the game more because of these points. It should cost more to keep an offensive army. It should be difficult to move in enemy territory. You shouldn't be able to heal in enemy territory.
I guess this all depends on your playing style, though.
Some of the things I don't like, though. If you don't like the fact that Offensive units aren't as upgradeable, you may always change this in the editor.
I guess this all depends on your playing style, though.
Some of the things I don't like, though. If you don't like the fact that Offensive units aren't as upgradeable, you may always change this in the editor.
Reboot
Privateer
Nonono... I do enjoy these rules. But thinking about them, I think they really messed up a conquest-player's game until they come up with strategies to exploit the game (e.g. build artillery).
I personally favour more peaceful approaches (still possible on a huge map until Monarch, I think) so these rules really help me.
I personally favour more peaceful approaches (still possible on a huge map until Monarch, I think) so these rules really help me.
Lt. 'Killer' M.
Deity
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2001
- Messages
- 7,475
I made the ancient techs more expensive and set minimum research time to 50 turns - and guess what i enjoy ancient wars again, as I did with 1.16! Give it a shot, up them all by at least 10%!
Reboot: good points! Still, the 'drive over them' approach of CivII is finally a gonner, and I do hope that Firaxis will be able to close a few exploits in PTW.....
Reboot: good points! Still, the 'drive over them' approach of CivII is finally a gonner, and I do hope that Firaxis will be able to close a few exploits in PTW.....
Scientia
Warlord
Here's a thought -- make the AI civs treat every other AI civ like a HUMAN PLAYER, then there will be no possible way for every AI civ to instantaneously get every tech the moment one of them discovers it.
If the AI gave other AI civs the same "deals" it gives the player, things would progress a lot more slowly, especially in the early stages of the game when the AI doesn't have much to trade with.
If the AI gave other AI civs the same "deals" it gives the player, things would progress a lot more slowly, especially in the early stages of the game when the AI doesn't have much to trade with.
Lt. 'Killer' M.
Deity
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2001
- Messages
- 7,475
BCLG100: they sometimes do!
Shabbaman
rebuffing the rebels
EDIT: Oh crap, wrong thread!!![punch] 
Moff Jerjerrod
Deity
Agreed............
I often find that by the time I have placed musketmen in all my cities it's time to upgrade them to riflemen. Then before you know it here comes the infantry.
I often find that by the time I have placed musketmen in all my cities it's time to upgrade them to riflemen. Then before you know it here comes the infantry.
about the AI tech-trading, it doesn't "cheat"(they don't) you that much since they battle each other and their gold vanish fast. money goes to unit rushing instead of research. I played archipelago and when i found them i was 7 techs behind the top tech-civ but the next civ was only 1 tech ahead of me. the other 2 civs were 4-5 techs ahead. just kill your research rate and buy them instead. is not so bad. actually i think it makes life easier.
hmm... American Beauty 'cheerleading-girls' scene. hehe... what a maniac!
hmm... American Beauty 'cheerleading-girls' scene. hehe... what a maniac!
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