Let's Play Civ 4

[Fierabras]

GLH with trade routes to where? Is Ragnar enough?

 

[huerfanista]

GLH with trade routes to where? Is Ragnar enough?

To your own cities. GLH give +2 traderoutes in ALL coastal cities. They don't have to be with other civs. Settle that SW island and you will have internal overseas TRs. The GLH is a very popular wonder in the Lonely Hearts Club series that features isolated starts. In fact, I would not open borders with Ragnar (or anyone else) until all coastal sites are rexed. The AI will definitely poach your land if you let them. The danger of war will be almost non-existent with any kind of reasonable defense. The AI totally sucks at overseas war.

EDIT: I just can't understand those who are advocating some kind of peaceful coexistence with Churchill. It will be a total piece of cake to take him out, and then you will have the entire continent to yourself. I have rarely (if ever) seen such fabulous land for a financial leader. Trust me, if you rex this continent you will have nothing to trade for from the AIs, because they will be left completely in the dust.

 

[schlaufuchs]

So it would appear to me that the big question in the next round is going to be, to rush, or not to rush?

Personally I'd be predisposed to right now get my Country nice and set up before burning our fine English Bulldog and his cities to the ground (figuratively of course, I'd probably keep at least one of them!), however huerfinista brings up a good point. If we have the manpower right now to dismantle Churchill, then we'd have the whole continent to settle at our leasure. What do you guys think? Like I said, personally I like early wars a lot more than later (and by later I mean swords+cats), and if we have the manpower right now, then I say by all means go for it.

 

[silk1976]

So it would appear to me that the big question in the next round is going to be, to rush, or not to rush?

Personally I'd be predisposed to right now get my Country nice and set up before burning our fine English Bulldog and his cities to the ground (figuratively of course, I'd probably keep at least one of them!), however huerfinista brings up a good point. If we have the manpower right now to dismantle Churchill, then we'd have the whole continent to settle at our leasure. What do you guys think? Like I said, personally I like early wars a lot more than later (and by later I mean swords+cats), and if we have the manpower right now, then I say by all means go for it.

My vote is to rush, take him out, and have the whole continent to ourselves. Once Churchill gets copper, then you pretty much HAVE to go with a catapult attack, and that will just give him even more time to expand and dig in.
Since he doesn't have metal, chop about 3-4 axes, and go after him. If you see that he has adopted slavery, park an axe over the copper near his capital so he doesn't get it.

 

[huerfanista]

As I said, you have all that you need for a rush right now. Churchill discovered poly on turn 26 (3350BC) - which means he started out myst> poly (approx 290 at avg 12 bpt. He starts with mining, and so will almost certainly go for BW next. He hasn't revolted to slavery yet, and he must go 2 further techs before archery (he starts with fishing and mining). There's no way he's going to have archers unless he had MAJOR luck popping huts. You've got a warrior right there - have you seen any archers yet? Without slavery he won't be able to whip any additional defenders. Click the whip button, move 3 axes for 10 turns to his borders, London - and the rest of the continent - is yours. Early axe rushes are the best, and this one will be pre-2000BC, which is always good.

Anyone else care to weigh in on this? It seems really obvious to me.

 

[schwanger]

I'm a vaguely competent prince player and am only now learning the art of the ax rush, but I think huer makes some excellent points. If you have the opportunity to off your only neighbor and take all of this land for yourself, you have to take it. Then be sure to prioritize a great prophet to get that shrine in London -- I'm a big fan of the Oracle, myself.

 

[assass1n]

Get Churchill before he gets to LBs
He will be a pain in the butt with those protective longbows AND
BUILD THE GW because as soon as you take his city you will be the only civ on the continent and barbs will start appearing and waste your hammers on axes and crap while you can simply focus on infrastructure and your economy

 

[fed1943]

War does you no good, just victory does.
But victory without war is not possible, so the solution is a fast war.
But to a fast war the enemy must have few units, so you do not want to give him time
to do many things.
Hence, the rush.
(then you can plan the continent and after the water game).
Best regards,

 

[hou jing]

Very interesting start. I played to 875 AD, and posted some highlights in screenshots below. At the end, I also wanted to ask a few questions. First, the order of the techs researched so far:

3925 Hunting
3800 Mining
3375 Bronze Working
3125 Wheel
2925 Pottery
2625 Animal Husbandry
2375 Masonry
2175 Mysticism
1950 Meditation
1800 Priesthood
1575 Writing
1400 Code of Laws*
975 Mathematics

*w/Oracle


Some screenshots:

Spoiler :

Popped Hunting on Turn 3:





I get this next scenario seemingly every game I play, and it usually comes very early in the game. I always decline. Is it worth the 2-unhappy, and if so, how long does the additional unhappiness last? I gave this some serious thought, given the floodplains, prior to declining.




2nd city up at 2500 BC:




Ragnar:




Oracle @ 1400:




Code of Laws (via Oracle):




Pyramids @ 950:




Empire in its infancy:




Amsterdam:




Utrecht:




3rd City?

Some thoughts:

Regarding the floodplains, what is the cottage/farm ratio? I'm thinking this depends on whether or not some of tiles will be worked by Utrecht. To me, you'd want to cottage as many as possible, but that would mean limited/no GP's in Amsterdam, right?

I flagged my opinion of the 3rd city's location above. Is this a good location for the Moai Statues?

I chose the wonders/religion over taking London, so now there will be multiple cities to deal with in England, and Ragnar needs to be dealt with before he can get those Berserkers built. I may have made a mistake with the two-in-a-row wonders here. I'll be interested to see how others have approached the early game.

The only whipping I did was the 3rd axeman, who was trained in Utrecht. I did this because of health issues.

I'm not nearly as good as most of the posters here, so I'd appreciate any feedback you have. Owen - thanks for posting. This looks to be a fun game to play out.

My apologies if any of this has already been discussed; I went straight to the game after seeing Owen's 4000 BC screenshot.

 

[huerfanista]

Regarding the floodplains, what is the cottage/farm ratio? I'm thinking this depends on whether or not some of tiles will be worked by Utrecht. To me, you'd want to cottage as many as possible, but that would mean limited/no GP's in Amsterdam, right?

With a financial leader I'd go 0% farms, 100% cottages. Your cottages start at 3 , so you can get a pretty good CE going quite quickly. Build markets in those cities before libraries.

Spoiler :

I used London as my GP farm - will post a summary soon.
And I didn't give up those wonders, either.

 

[DMOC]

I would favor rushing Churchill. Just get rid of him and then you have plenty of space to yourself. Use both chopping and whipping in addition to normal production. Try to get about 6-8 axes by 1500-1000 BC. This is probably overkill for Noble, but then again, Churchill is protective.


hou jing - I would recommend accepting that herbalist random event. The unhappiness shouldn't hurt you that much in the early game when your cities (or just city) might not be at its happiness limit yet. And it pays off hugely later on.

 

[schlaufuchs]

Ok, I'll play and post tonight, however I'll probably only go as far as offing Churchill (I know, I know, very short round), but I'm would like to be very careful about planting new cities, as like I said, I'm not that great at that aspect of the game, and would like some help in that regard.

(Sorry, in advance, I know this round was way overdue, but hey you can't help but procrastinate during winter break, right?)

 

[DMOC]

Don't worry about being "forced" to post. In my games I post here I sometimes go weeks without posting.

 

[huerfanista]

I would favor rushing Churchill. Just get rid of him and then you have plenty of space to yourself. Use both chopping and whipping in addition to normal production. Try to get about 6-8 axes by 1500-1000 BC. This is probably overkill for Noble, but then again, Churchill is protective.

Yes, it is overkill. Churchill spent 26 turns researching myst> poly. In the SS he has farms, so that's another 10-12 turns for agriculture. If he went hunting> archery, that's another 24 turns (to 62, where we are now). If he went BW that's 24. If you send 3 axes right now, there is no way he'll have more than 1 archer (if any) and he won't be able to whip. I doubt he have anything other than warriors, and protective does nothing for melee. Could he have popped a tech? Sure, but certainly not BW (he's not in slavery and there aren't any huts left), and I haven't seen any sign of archers. If his hills were forested he won't have any real production (no mines, chops, or whips) to build defenders.

@Owen
I'd settle first on the eastern coast to grab the stone and wheat(settle 4 E of Amsterdam). Then just move clockwise along the coast to block Ragnar, grabbing the wheat and clams (4 S of Amsterdam). Next I'd put 1S of the eastern dye (riverside/coastal, share the wheat to grow, save the wheat to the west for the horses - also riverside coast).

 

[CreeDakota]

Huerfanista's analysis of Churchhills weakness seems accurate to me. Crush him.

I would Settle the Stone/Fish City next. Try and get a boat built to continue exploring, I would want to know where ragnar is, how much land he has to expand to, and if you can reach any more Civs pre-optics (you can, Rags is Jewish but didnt found it).

I havent seen london yet but it is probably your best site for a GP Farm. I would perhaps place oracle there, you do need a Prophet for your Shrine City.

Hold off on adopting Buddism til you know diplomacy situation better.

 

[Loki Strikes]

Well I am a prince/monarch player, but I would definitely 5 axes, despite Churchill being ridiculously behind keep in mind protective + holy city so anticipate 40-60% cultural bonus, I'd bring 5 to be safe, (well personally I'd bring 6 I like my ratios to be whole numbers and I always assume two archers, but that may be my monarch thinking talking)

 

[huerfanista]

Well I am a prince/monarch player, but I would definitely 5 axes, despite Churchill being ridiculously behind keep in mind protective + holy city so anticipate 40-60% cultural bonus, I'd bring 5 to be safe, (well personally I'd bring 6 I like my ratios to be whole numbers and I always assume two archers, but that may be my monarch thinking talking)

Sorry, but there's no way he'll have anywhere near 50-60% defenses this early. We're talking about taking him out pre-2000 BC. He'll only have warriors (this is noble, not monarch), and you could give them 200% bonuses and they'd still lose to axes.

 

[Sammcs]

1893 Conquest Victory

Spoiler :

Not much to say, and I didn't take any pictures beyond the first few. I'm a Monarch/Emperor player, so I crushed Noble. Definitely take out Churchill early, and your continent is the biggest landmass. Fill it up. I was so far ahead in tech I didn't know what to do with myself. Tanks vs Longbow isn't very hard. I just vassalized everyone. Haha. Open up save and press enter to win.

 

[schlaufuchs]

Sorry about not posting, I've been having computer woes these last few days. Hopefully all will be well within the next few days.

 

[Skallagrimson]

Definitely if you can get Churchy before he can archer up, do it ASAP.