Let's Talk About Underwhelming Buildings!

sonicmyst

Emperor
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Aug 9, 2016
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Philippines
Fellow civfans!

Now that NFP is almost finished, I think it is time to discuss what are the buildings that feel so underwhelming and should need some tweaks.

In my list:
1. Sewer: +2 housing is meh and playing tall is not really for all civs.
2. Food Market: who needs more food at during end game? Unless we have serious repercussions for starvation, I feel like there needs to be at least one more bonus for this building.
3. Airport: production, combat experience and additional unit slot and airlifting units? It does not seem enticing to me at all.

Thoughts?
 
Fellow civfans!

Now that NFP is almost finished, I think it is time to discuss what are the buildings that feel so underwhelming and should need some tweaks.

In my list:
1. Sewer: +2 housing is meh and playing tall is not really for all civs.
2. Food Market: who needs more food at during end game? Unless we have serious repercussions for starvation, I feel like there needs to be at least one more bonus for this building.
3. Airport: production, combat experience and additional unit slot and airlifting units? It does not seem enticing to me at all.

Thoughts?
  1. For me, sewers get built because by that time I'm starting to run out of things to build. They're useful for squeezing one more district out of the city without having to waste a tile on a neighbourhood (or opening up the chance of partisans). Maybe it could be +3 so it is an entire district.
  2. Same thing as sewers, really. I wouldn't build a neighbourhood for it, but if I'm running out of things to build, this is a possibility. Mainly though the alternative, the shopping mall, provides so little gold to be worthless at that stage. A 15 city empire will produce 30 gpt, which is nothing compared to the 1,000gpt that I'm normally producing. Food sometimes can be useful to prevent population reduction via starvation.
  3. Honestly, the main problem I have with airports is the limitation of aircraft due to aluminium maintenance. You get three aircraft per mine, and maybe 5 mines if you're lucky. That's only 15 aircraft (including helicopters) at most, which limits the usefulness of having a fully developed aerodrome district. I'm usually done making my airforce before that happens and use carriers to station them. So again, they get built when I run out of more useful stuff to build, mostly for the extra production in case I need to hard build stuff in the future.
I guess that's my attitude to them; they're all situationally useful, but mostly get built because otherwise it's just other busywork stuff. I rarely think that they are particularly worth prioritising.
 
Airport: production, combat experience and additional unit slot and airlifting units? It does not seem enticing to me at all.

I’ve always thought it weird that Airports (or Aerodromes in general) don’t provide tourism.

To me, it seems obvious that, upon researching Flight, all cities with Aerodromes should receive something like +25% tourism. This could then increase to +50% after building an Airport.

It would massively incentivise building Aerodromes and, y’know, it would actually make sense thematically.
 
I think buildings in general are rather dull after the challenge of unlocking and placing districts, and the rewards to getting good bonuses on specialty districts. Libraries are pretty dull albeit essential, you don't get a trade route (opens many choices), GW slots, you can't add to the yields like you can shrines. If they gave no science yield (without a specialist) but did something else it'd be cool.

I'd also like to see certain buildings be decoupled from districts and be linked to geographical features, like lighthouses and watermills. Not as improvements but as buildings that could go in many or any district. Plenty of lighthouses around here (my RL home) that aren't in the harbour, they're all along the shores. Also, who ever heard of a harbour that didn't have a marketplace?
 
1) DiploQuarter -- Consulate & Chancery... what good is some extra Spying counter-tricks when we already can park *A* single (ranked-up accordingly) spy where it matters most or simply use specific Policy cards that mimic such potential(s) .. better in some cases.

2) Preserve -- Grove & Sanctuary... by the time (Modern Era) they both can be put to good use.. the whole Terrain enhancing situations in most cities have gone beyond any "still unimproved" tiles nearby while yields boost are already nicely (via many global effects) handled by other stuff. Very situational assets that mainly benefit from a few big NW (( ex; Mount Roraima )) proximity values.
 
Nuclear Power Plants.

The Nuclear Power Plant is one of those building I do not get. It has nice yield, but you cannot stack them: there is no point of having more than one, while the main purpose of the Plant is more about Power than the yield. I tend to build up the adjacency bonus of my Industrial Zone: most of time I like the Coal Factory more for the better yield.
The Uranium cost ratio is rather low (1:16), but it is far from being nothing: it prevents you to use a Giant Death Robot. Worst: it is still generating CO2 and can auto-pillage itself. Why? Why is this a thing? Is even a Coal / Oil remotely safer than Nuclear to begin with, when we include the mine accident, killing smog, pipeline explosion, oil spill...?
So far, the Nuclear Power Plant is not worth it, and it gets worse when you play Marathon, since the explosion happens thrice as likely since the number of turns between each Recommission doesn't scale with game speed.


1) DiploQuarter -- Consulate & Chancery... what good is some extra Spying counter-tricks when we already can park *A* single (ranked-up accordingly) spy where it matters most or simply use specific Policy cards that mimic such potential(s) .. better in some cases

I couldn't disagree more than that. I like the Diplomatic Quarter a lot. It has multiple purposes, and it is far from being weak:
  • Influence: The buildings give +2 and +3 Influence respectively, allowing to increase your Envoy generation rate between ~50% and ~100%. In the end game, where it is the least prominent, you get 4 Envoys from every 28 turns to every 18 turns, further reduced to every 14 turns with the Gunboat Diplomacy policy card. This allows to swim in Envoy, so more yield, so more Suzerainty, so more Diplomatic Favor.
  • Diplomatic Favor: you gain +1 per Delegation / Embassy. Playing peacefully, this is a huge thing. I will gain roughly 5 to 10 DF from this. Not that DF is remotely useful fo the diplomatic victory, but you can ask a fair amount of Gold for this, which they probably waste it all in a luxury ban or something.
  • Espionnage: it allows to make almost immune a city to Spy, so I can safely make it a Gold generation one with Reyna and CH/Harbor triangle. The Science from catching Spy is rather incidental, but I guess it is nice anyway. Since a Spy can only catch one Spy per turn, it helps to see that you didn't lost like 10000 gold because two enemy spies finished their mission in your Commercial Hub at the same turn.
It is more for a peaceful gameplay, when you want to have the monopoly of suzerainty. It fit the way I play well.
 
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Let's start by the ones mentinoned:

Sewer: +2 housing with little investment is good. Altough I agree going up to +3 could be good. Even if going tall is not as good as it was in previous games, +1pop working is always +1 pop working (and if some tweaks were made to population, like specialists being more valuable, it would increase in interest).
Initially tought about amenities being a good Idea, then I re-thought that we have a "happiness" split where generic "wellness" is represented by housing, while "leisure" is represented by amenities, and I think sewers fit only in the first cathegory. (Not that the split might not be re-tought in future games, but I think it's too late to change that in Civ6).

Food Market: Same toughts about population above. For cities with little landspace, food markets help reach these last population points. Complements well the Neighbourhood in that it gives the food to support the housing. If I don't build it more is generally because neighbourhoods are not very valuable districts.

Airport: Yes, Aerodrome districts miss the fact that it is used purely for military. Radical proposal: Tourism-per-flight bonuses will only apply to tiles in a 9-tile radius of an Airport (adjust the tile radius at wish). Makes sense, don't it?. You'll probably need to ease other points of CV or find other challenges for SV and DV, but I think this would be the logical way to increase the need for airports.

Watermill: I find it pretty useful in the early game, but then usefulness probably decays in later stages (but maybe that's the point?)


My picks:

Stock Exchange: Probably a bit more gold doesn't hurt, but at certain point in the game you barely notice their effect in your income (Holding products in monopolies makes them interesting, nevertheless, at least in landlocked cities)

Arena/Ferris Wheel are a classic, altough I'm pending to check if the double amenities of the last patch really have an impact. I don't see nevertheless how they could be boosted much more ¿maybe some gpt or adittional situational amenities (e.g, arena +1/+2 amenities if the city has an encampment and/or a holy site, ferris wheel +1/+2 amenities if the citiy has a campus and/or industrial zone)?.

Library and University: just a crackpot Idea: ¿could they be used to increase specialist yields in general? (i.e., education brings you science, but also scholarship in different matters)
 
I think buildings in general are rather dull after the challenge of unlocking and placing districts, and the rewards to getting good bonuses on specialty districts. Libraries are pretty dull albeit essential, you don't get a trade route (opens many choices), GW slots, you can't add to the yields like you can shrines. If they gave no science yield (without a specialist) but did something else it'd be cool.

I'd also like to see certain buildings be decoupled from districts and be linked to geographical features, like lighthouses and watermills. Not as improvements but as buildings that could go in many or any district. Plenty of lighthouses around here (my RL home) that aren't in the harbour, they're all along the shores. Also, who ever heard of a harbour that didn't have a marketplace?
I've always thought it odd that libraries cannot hold great works of writing. It would be an interesting tweak if writing could be put in libraries (and perhaps universities as well) and add science instead of culture. This would create more options for the player.
 
The Odd thing about Buildings in Civ VI IMHO is that there is no option to upgrade them, just the usual +x Yield when Powered.
I think it should be possible to upgrade Buildings from earlier Eras, like giving more Food and Production bonus to Watermill, and GPP for Scientists and Writers (and even Admirals and Generals given that they always look back at battles happened in the past, that were recorded by writers) from Library.
 
Sure, games are finished after so many turns, we need more and bigger yields...
 
Sewers I mostly build for the inspiration. I think over time, they have added a lot more sources of housing, so that always reduces the sewer's benefits. I do think sewers should have a bigger effect the bigger a city is, so make them +1 housing per district in a city as a start. In a perfect world, they would essentially be the modern upgrade to aqueducts. Like, it's kind of dumb to be building tanks and stuff, yet you still sometimes build an old fashioned aqueduct to ship water around and help your factories out? Ideally, it would be great if you could somehow merge it all together, so that somehow when you unlock sewers, you can dismantle an aqueduct and place another district in its spot. I think if they also removed other sources of housing in the mid to late game, that would help too. Like, if New Deal was simply +2 amenities in each city without the housing bonus, then at least you're a little squeezed more for housing, enough that being able to build a sewer to give 4 or 5 housing makes sense.

Food Markets I do actually use them a couple times, but most of the time, since you can only choose it or the shopping mall, I agree it's underwhelming. They have boosted the shopping mall to give multiple amenities and tourism, as someone suggested above, if the food market added some secondary pieces, that would help too. I also would like it if you build 2 neighbourhoods in the city that it would let you build both of the buildings. Would at least open up some new avenues for growing larger.

A lot of the other mid to late game ones are still fairly weak. I seem to always find myself being able to like 2-turn late science techs without even needing to build more than 1 or 2 research labs most games. I kind of feel at the very least, cards like the International Space Agency should be something like +5% science per CS suzerain in each city with a research lab. (And similar for broadcast tower and the culture card). Would seriously nerf those cards, but would at least force you to build research labs for the bonus. Arguably another option would be to make research labs and broadcast towers more like a regional building - although without overlapping area effects, you still wouldn't need more than a couple of them to cover your empire.
Others have mentioned, but yeah, all the aerodrome buildings are also seriously weak too. Would love to see a larger tourism emphasis to them, and even could combine their bonus with like the national park or ski hill bonus too. So maybe each airport building should give like +25% tourism to all tile improvements in range that give tourism? I mean, in theory you should be able to gain a lot more tourism from Moai or stuff too if you can fly there.
 
I have never built a sewer, and I doubt that I ever will. Likewise I very rarely build neighborhoods. I suffer amenity shortages much more often than housing -- I build wide, with lots of workers to improve the land. By the time housing starts to limit, I've largely grown onto all of my land tiles anyway. Adding pop would just mean working a terrible tile (unimproved coast, desert hill, I might even have to run specialists). I tried shopping malls once for a cultural victory, figuring out just how insignificant their tourism is. Food markets look just as bad
I find the bank and stock exchange to be too weak, except possibly for Eurekas. The second and third tier govt plaza buildings don't impress me, unless I really need to faith-buy an army; but they do give governor titles, and that's usually worth it anyway.

I will defend the amenity buildings, but recognize that most of the value comes with the last building, powered.
 
Banks and Stock Exchanges are pretty bad. They do not scale well with how rapidly gold grows later on. Seaports for similar reasons.

Also, Broadcast Centers? One slot of a crappy great work and some culture.

Worship buildings in general are a waste, unless Arabia. You have an Apostle startup cost, making it hard early game unless you build that wonder. Except Arabia. Ok, mosques are decent for the 1 extra charge, but do you need to recruit religious units from every city?

Finally, I'm going to bash the water mill. A mere 1 production and some occasional food over bonus resources makes it rather specific, and not very exciting either way.
 
One word: Tlachtli.
 
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