Liberating a CS to war...

[Dunkah]

Here is a strange situation I ran into ysterday. Not sure if this is what is supposed to happen or if this is a vanilla bug or if it is even something that can be fixed. Or even needs to be fixed.

I was fighting against Eqypt yesterday, here is the sequence of events:

Eqypt was Allied with Quebec City.
Egypt declared war on USA.
USA captured Quebec City early on.
Later Egypt took Quebec City from USA deciding not to liberate knocking USA out of the game.
I declared war on Egypt.
Attacked and took Quebec City.
Liberated it so I wouldn't take the unhappiness hit.
Because Egypt was Allied before Quebec City was conquered originally It reverted back to Egypt, even though they were "Eternally Gratefull" to me for Liberating them.

I got the "Now allied with Egypt" notification right after I conquered the city, but before I ended the turn I just happened to have a large surplus of gold so I spent about 10 grand to get them to Allied status with me before I flipped the turn.

So the big question is: Had I not done that would they have declared war on me?

I admit I didn't check how much influence they had before I liberated. But that seems a bit cheeky to me...

Does anyone know if that Liberation mod works?

 

[Ahriman]

I don't really see a problem here.

 

[Dd_Infiltrator]

The problem is that Egypt conquered Quebec and that when it was "liberated", it immediately decided to ally itself with its former master instead of its "liberator".

It should either be that it allies with its "liberator", nobody, or there is simply not the option to "liberate" it if its going to ally itself with your enemy (their former rulers) anyway.


Think of it this way (not really city-state, but you get the point): Germany overran France; then the allies liberated France; all of a sudden France allies itself with Germany and declares war on its liberators...

 

[EsoEs]

working as intended, liberating a CS will revert its influence back to its pre-capture state.

 

[Ahriman]

working as intended, liberating a CS will revert its influence back to its pre-capture state.

Right. This is my point, I don't see a problem with the design as intended.

You didn't really liberate it from Egypt, you basically liberated it from the US.

 

[Dd_Infiltrator]

working as intended, liberating a CS will revert its influence back to its pre-capture state.

Right. This is my point, I don't see a problem with the design as intended.

You didn't really liberate it from Egypt, you basically liberated it from the US.

Except that you did liberate it from Egypt... and then it declared war on you, its "liberators". How can you not see a problem with that?

 

[tlaurila]

Isn't it obvious the city state should favor the liberators? Simple working logic would be just to set relations to something like +150 with liberator, 0 with all others.

If you want to make this more complex, at least the liberator should gain a very significant bonus to the CS relation for liberating it (like, maybe 150.) The CS could retain any relations it had before occupation, but then while the CS was occupied those relations decaying in time should be counted for. Then its ally after liberation would then be the one with highest rank. The liberator having the boost would have by far the best odds, and rightly so.

It's just silly if CS relations are in "frozen time" while occupied. Even starting from a blank slate after liberation makes much more sense.

 

[Seek]

This is a vanilla bug (I consider it a bug, anyway). Additionally, if the captured CS was allied to a civ which was totally wiped out before being liberated, it will emerge still allied to them!

 

[Dunkah]

The problem is that the original Ally had a chance to Liberate Quebec from the US and chose not to. Thus becoming the conqueror.

So either they are grateful or not... if they are grateful then the liberator should get a bonus or at least they should not be able to join with the other ally (declare war) until the war is over.

In my opinion America should never be able to be allied with Quebec again, due to the fact they attacked and conquered them.
Egypt should have suffered a huge diplo penalty for not liberating when they had a chance, my preference would be, them not ever being able to be allied again.
The liberator (me) should have got a huge diplo boost with them.

Not only that but perhaps received a diplo boost with other CS's for being so compasionate.

Note: this could bring up a situation where you are at war with a CS that actually votes for you in an election?

 

[Ahriman]

Except that you did liberate it from Egypt... and then it declared war on you, its "liberators". How can you not see a problem with that?

I don't see a big problem, because Egypt would have had to have invested a huge amount in the city state before the Americans captured it in order to still be the dominant ally after you liberated it.

I also wouldn't mind if liberating a city state reset all other influence though. I think either method can work fine; someone is going to get a bit screwed either way.

I don't think that "failing to liberate" a city state is the same as conquering it though.

 

[Thalassicus]

I feel citystates in general are a very unfinished part of the game, and will put it on my todo list.

 

[Dd_Infiltrator]

There are no lua events for capture/liberation of a city/citystate at all? Surely there must be something there we could use?