Lifespans - shurely shome mishtake here

[HiRezAudio]

The default setting is meant to be the 'Nasty, Brutish & Short' setting, which may well have applied to the general population, but rarely to leaders & Nation Heads.
Just look at the ages some of the Romans, Babylonians & Egyptians managed - Augustus & Tiberius both went well into their 80's, as did Ramses II and a whole heap of Egyptian Pharaohs.
Remember that then, as now, the so-called 'elites' as ever had the best of everything so unless they were bumped off or got the chop playing power politics, they always made old bones.

 

[Pfeffersack]

Is the default setting here really the lowermost option? I'm aware that it is called "realistic" and the tooltip explains it as you cited, but the middle option is "standard" and for me the game defaults to that after a reset. So it is surely debatable in terms of wording, but you actively have to enable it.

 

[HiRezAudio]

Yes, I get that.
Sorry - but I should have been clearer. It's not the fact it cannot be changed, as of course it can.
It just should not even be there in the first place, really.
The myth of 'Nasty, Brutish & Short' was just that - a myth, unless you were a medieval peasant

 

[Pfeffersack]

Yes, I get that.
Sorry - but I should have been clearer. It's not the fact it cannot be changed, as of course it can.
It just should not even be there in the first place, really.
The myth of 'Nasty, Brutish & Short' was just that - a myth, unless you were a medieval peasant

I see that the wording is debatable, but I disagree that the option should be removed (even more because it is not even the default setting) - the preset middle option is Standard and I think it is good to have both an option for earlier deaths (called Realistic) and one for even longer lifes (called Lengthy), as they allow tailoring the game to personal preference (do I enjoy a scarcity of characters and potential succession problems or do I want to have amore relaxed game here?). In regard to the wording, I'm open for a change, though. You surely have a point that most of the reduced average life expectancy in early history was caused by socio-economic factors and also a by a much higher mortality of children. Probably a more realistic approach would be increasing the amount of death during childhood and in battles.

Also, the German translation of the option with highest lifespan is a bit confusing, as the option is labelled "mortality" and the setting is called "erhöht" (= increased), which is in fact the opposite from the wording ("increased mortality")

 

[PiR]

Probably a more realistic approach would be increasing the amount of death during childhood and in battles.

But then you also need a baby to get born every other turn if you want to be fully realistic.
Not sure I'd be into that.

 

[Pfeffersack]

But then you also need a baby to get born every other turn if you want to be fully realistic.
Not sure I'd be into that.

Yes, thats likely the reason why this isn't done this way - I remember having read from a developer of CK3 that both for performance reasons (generation of additional characters) and because the majority of players just doesn't like it, mortality among children is reduced below what would be realistic. I prefer realism here, but I can understand the reasons and the way it is handled.

 

[PiR]

I'm all for realism, but what would it really add except updating the list of heir and adding clicks each turns to acknowledge the info? It's not like you have a strategic choice to make towards a baby. You can only tutor them much later, when the infantility death risk is mostly passed. So you'd just be informed of new heir/lost heir without much value, maybe just a tiny bit of suspense. I prefer the abstraction that if the game tells me a baby is born, this is one that survives early conditions, and the others are just not mentionned.

 

[Solver]

No matter what reviewers tend to say, there's not a lot of CK in the design of Old World.

We're not even attempting to be a character or family simulator. Characters are important when they enrich the overall 4X gameplay, or provide a narrative. There would not be any value for our design in couples having 5-6 children, of which 2 or 3 make it to adulthood. Character counts are intentionally kept fairly low, with the hope that you can then interact with most characters in some way, using them as governors/generals or having them appear in stories.

And the mortality rates are of course also driven by 4X considerations. The default setting is what we feel provides the best gameplay, the Realistic setting is for an extra challenge with people dying younger and dying more often from diseases. The extended mortality option is interesting because it also excludes certain events from the game - some people don't like the possibility of tutoring and preparing their heir just to have the heir die in a freak accident, so extended morality rules stuff like that out.

 

[PiR]

extended morality

I haven't seen that option. Is it something ethics-focused, like you can't choose Slavery nor Tyranny, maybe?

 

[Quintillus]

I'm 99% sure that the middle-of-the-ground option is the default, unless it changed with the latest patch, which wasn't in the patch notes.

With that option, I've seen multiple (not most, but more than one) rulers live into their 80s. IIRC, Hatshepsut made it to 88 in my current game.

So far I've been happy with the default, but I don't see a problem with having the Nasty, Brutish, and Short option, and plan to try it at some point. And medical care wasn't as sophisticated back then, no matter how much money you had.

 

[Solver]

Play enough games and you come across a few unlikely occurrences, too. My last game had two great leaders who ruled for ~50 years and died in their 80s, but my Chancellors kept dying left and right, with one 40 year old falling ill and dying right after being appointed.

 

[PiR]

I'm pretty sure in your case, it's @Dale who hardcoded something based on your user id

 

[Dale]

character::doTurn()
{
    base.doTurn();
    if (OnlineUserID == "Solver")
    {
        int iDalesJoke = 40;
        if (isChancellor())
        {
            if (getAge() >= iDalesJoke)
            {
                die();
            }
        }
    }
}

 

[HiRezAudio]

No matter what reviewers tend to say, there's not a lot of CK in the design of Old World.

We're not even attempting to be a character or family simulator. Characters are important when they enrich the overall 4X gameplay, or provide a narrative. There would not be any value for our design in couples having 5-6 children, of which 2 or 3 make it to adulthood. Character counts are intentionally kept fairly low, with the hope that you can then interact with most characters in some way, using them as governors/generals or having them appear in stories.

And the mortality rates are of course also driven by 4X considerations. The default setting is what we feel provides the best gameplay, the Realistic setting is for an extra challenge with people dying younger and dying more often from diseases. The extended mortality option is interesting because it also excludes certain events from the game - some people don't like the possibility of tutoring and preparing their heir just to have the heir die in a freak accident, so extended morality rules stuff like that out.

That makes sense to me in every way.
Much appreciated and thank you for taking the time to explain

 

[qouigv93027]

No matter what reviewers tend to say, there's not a lot of CK in the design of Old World.

We're not even attempting to be a character or family simulator. Characters are important when they enrich the overall 4X gameplay, or provide a narrative. There would not be any value for our design in couples having 5-6 children, of which 2 or 3 make it to adulthood. Character counts are intentionally kept fairly low, with the hope that you can then interact with most characters in some way, using them as governors/generals or having them appear in stories.

And the mortality rates are of course also driven by 4X considerations. The default setting is what we feel provides the best gameplay, the Realistic setting is for an extra challenge with people dying younger and dying more often from diseases. The extended mortality option is interesting because it also excludes certain events from the game - some people don't like the possibility of tutoring and preparing their heir just to have the heir die in a freak accident, so extended morality rules stuff like that out.

I didn't know that! That's great! Yeah, for sure if one is using extended mortality, it would be unpleasant to have merely reduced freak accidents, it would be a little frustrating.