Limit on Haste?

[A_Hamster]

Okay, I know a unit cannot benefit twice in the same turn from a Haste spell, but in my current game, a number of units who have not used Haste in yet in the turn have not gotten to move again after the casting.

Example: Ratha with base move 3 escorting a Wizard (Base move 1 + 1 from Mobility 1). They move one move from a forested Plain onto a forested Hill. Haste has not been cast at this point. The Ratha casts Haste: the Ratha gets 1 move back (1/4 on the display), but the Wizard is now (0/3). So the Wizard has gotten the bonus movement point, but it is recorded as expended and of course a second casting of Haste does not work. So what is going on?

 

[rocklikeafool]

You need to cast Haste before the Wizard has zero movement. It should work then.

 

[xienwolf]

Tile = 1 cost
Forest = +1 cost
Hill = +1 cost

Thus each unit expended 3 total move. The game will track that your movement for the turn was sent Negative. Thus applying Haste after movement gains no benefit over applying it before movement (in most cases)

 

[Mithrus]

Tile = 1 cost
Forest = +1 cost
Hill = +1 cost

Thus each unit expended 3 total move. The game will track that your movement for the turn was sent Negative. Thus applying Haste after movement gains no benefit over applying it before movement (in most cases)

Although I haven't checked in a patch letter or two, it was the case that if you had a move of 1 and moved into a forest, then cast haste, you could move a total of two squares. if oyu cast haste then moved, you used up all your movement in the forest.

 

[DrPepper836]

Yes, that's how it works. All it does is adds 1 movement, and this movement is modified by any normal modifiers, because it is a normal movement point. Like the mobility one promote.

 

[xienwolf]

Mithrus: the case you pointed out is what made me tag the (in most cases) on the end of my post I haven't played with it to see precisely how the game handles things, but back when I actually played the game I would take full advantage of that, so I can vouch that it works in Deserts as well. Not sure if I ever had it work in Hills, so maybe that is the sticking point in the problem mentioned in OP.

But yeah, in spite of my earlier post, I know that someone with a base move of 1 can move into a forest, THEN get Hasted, and move right out. But if they get Hasted, then move into the Forest, they are stuck.

 

[A_Hamster]

Tile = 1 cost
Forest = +1 cost
Hill = +1 cost

Thus each unit expended 3 total move. The game will track that your movement for the turn was sent Negative. Thus applying Haste after movement gains no benefit over applying it before movement (in most cases)

Thanks, I suspected something like this. The unit "owed" MP and so casting Haste was "paying back" the loan.

But yeah, in spite of my earlier post, I know that someone with a base move of 1 can move into a forest, THEN get Hasted, and move right out. But if they get Hasted, then move into the Forest, they are stuck.

*Nod* My experience also in previous games, which is why I cast Haste afterwards.

 

[hbar]

...The Ratha casts Haste: the Ratha gets 1 move back (1/4 on the display), but the Wizard is now (0/3)...

Did you try telling the stack to move despite the display? I've noticed that a lot of times the extra movement won't show up on the display and the little movement dot in the unit icon will stay red. However, if you tell the unit to move (and the move cursor will say 2 turns) it will move right away. Also, the auto-pathfinder doesn't like this either, so that adds even more micromanagement to haste.

 

[MaxAstro]

...And all of this is why in my personal mod, I set Haste to last as long as any unit in the stack can cast haste, thus removing all the micromanagement issues.

 

[A_Hamster]

Did you try telling the stack to move despite the display? I've noticed that a lot of times the extra movement won't show up on the display and the little movement dot in the unit icon will stay red. However, if you tell the unit to move (and the move cursor will say 2 turns) it will move right away. Also, the auto-pathfinder doesn't like this either, so that adds even more micromanagement to haste.

Yes. I just get the path with a 2 at the intended endpoint.

And yes, the display does not update automatically. When Haste does work, you have to click the stack again, then the display updates.

 

[smurven]

Do you guys remember way back (civ 1 or 2) where if you tried to move into a hard terrain you didnt always get to on the first try? That was a LONG time ago.

 

[Fafnir13]

Was that in Civ 1 and 2 or just 1? I can't remember, been ages since I played either.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I hadn't discovered Civ back then. Wasn't Alpha Centauri like that though?

 

[A_Hamster]

I hadn't discovered Civ back then. Wasn't Alpha Centauri like that though?

Not exactly. smurven is referring to attempting to enter a tile that a unit does not have enough MP to legally enter. In SMAC, that was not an issue. Rather, non-native units moving into tiles with Xenofungus might not be able to enter, regardless of MP remaining. Even upon successfully entering non-native units lost all remaining MP. The secret project The Xenoempathy Dome allowed the owner's units to move through fungus as if they were native units (it counted as road movement instead). One could get similar benefits at certain points on the tech tree as one gained a greater understanding of Planet.

"Can a planet be said to be sentient?" -- Lady Deirdre Skye -- Arguments in Council.

 

[rocklikeafool]

I remember that in Civ2, it didn't always work. Wow, good times...

 

[hapveg]

It's been a while, but if I recall correctly trying to send a unit with 2 movement through a mountain (requires 3 movement in Civ1) would work 2/3rds of the time.

However, a unit with only 1 movement left would always be able to move 1 square, so a sometimes viable trick with faster units was to waste all but 1 movement on plains / grassland before before moving onto a mountain.

The movement oddity meant that when a mixed stack of 1 movement infantry mixed and faster units moved through bad terrain the infantry would often arrive there first.

It's been a fair while, but I'm fairly sure I remember it that way.

 

[Niveras]

Do you guys remember way back (civ 1 or 2) where if you tried to move into a hard terrain you didnt always get to on the first try? That was a LONG time ago.

Not so much always first try, but - in AC at least - you could not move into a tile that required more movements points than the unit had, unless the unit had all its movement points. So both a scout and a rover (with move 1 and move 2 respectively) could move into a xenofungus square if they moved nowhere else, but if a rover moved one tile and then tried to enter a xenofungus square, it would have to wait until the next turn (and it would do it automatically at that point, unless you canceled the action).

 

[Chip56]

you could not move into a tile that required more movements points than the unit had, unless the unit had all its movement points

Nope. You could use a rover to travel one flat (1MP) terain and then into rocky (2MP) terain. That always worked unless it was xenofungus. It is possible to enter xenofungus with only one movement left rovers, but unlikly unless you had high planet rating or the right wonders.